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RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert?
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xirdneH_imiJ
Posts: 1893
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton
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RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (in reply to rombsix)
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being a bit off-topic here, but somehow i feel it's related... i just came home from a Gary Moore concert...and wow, i've never been so disappointed in my life...i gave up after 6 songs... the guy's supposed to be one of the best players in the world...and yes, technically he's excellent...and he plays the blues - or does he? we all encountered the I-IV-V on our instruments and played some solos with clichés...but did we ever try to entertain 15-20000 people with 3 chords and some lengthy uninspired soloing? well, Gary did just that, i heard nothing else but I-IV-V, and some copied solos from other players, just louder...at the end i felt like i had listened to endless tango compás with just the 3 main chords and noodling around the phrygian scale in the first position... how does this relate to this conversation? it sounds clean, technically well executed, yet lacks any ideas and is sold as blues...while it's not blues, just bluesy stuff...something like Ottmar and co....
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Date Nov. 13 2009 13:31:01
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John O.
Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany
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RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (in reply to daffey)
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quote:
As we can see, it upsets the purists to no end LOL! Not just purists. I'm all for fusion, using different elements in flamenco, even using flamenco elements in guitar music, but he's not even doing any of that, it's guitar music in 4/4 or 3/4, that is ALL. He just jumped on the bandwagon is all. On a more banal note, another no-go in my book is using song titles with false abbreviations, like "Surrender 2 Love", "Waiting 4 Stars 2 Fall", or "Road 2 Her Home", (which is supposed to be a buleria because he accents 12, 3, 6, 8, 10 at the end) ...TACKY!
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Date Nov. 14 2009 8:32:51
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (in reply to John O.)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John O. On a more banal note, another no-go in my book is using song titles with false abbreviations, like "Surrender 2 Love", "Waiting 4 Stars 2 Fall", or "Road 2 Her Home", (which is supposed to be a buleria because he accents 12, 3, 6, 8, 10 at the end) ...TACKY! LOL does it make you so angry? Maybe i will dedicate my next falseta "4 you" Oh i just red this on the page above... quote:
Liebert, who has incorporated his own innovative ideas into the vocabulary of flamenco—bringing electric bass, synthesizer, electronics, drum kit, and more into the mix I mean its not only a falset statement that he plays flamenco, but also that it were his inventions. He would really grow in my eyes if he would use the term flamenco. But he just keeps on ignoring... If he said that its inspired by flamenco, well ok, not understandable, but acceptable.
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Date Nov. 16 2009 4:54:22
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bugeyed
Posts: 56
Joined: Aug. 24 2009
From: Conroe, Texas
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RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (in reply to rombsix)
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Music is music, plain and simple. If you are offended by what genre it is claimed to be representing that is a personal issue. Just because Ottmar is thought to play flamenco, does not diminish any of the true flamenco that is being produced. I think the root of the animosity is OL's success, & that has nothing to do with us! People enjoy music on many different levels. As with many things, many experience music without really "listening" with any understanding. Especially those who don't play an instrument. Could it be possible that those people are the best qualified to judge the musicality of the performance. They don't judge it based on difficulty or the musicians virtuosity, because they don't understand what is involved. They just know if the music pleases them or not. I like many styles of music & have found myself enjoying some music that I am embarrassed to admit. If a melody or musical piece moves you in some way, just enjoy it. Our judgments can often keep us from enjoying the freedom of "living out loud". I have learned much in this life by accepting that someones joy is real & even if I am not equally moved, I can share in their joyous energy. Peace, kev
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Date Nov. 16 2009 6:45:00
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Adam
Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON
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RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (in reply to fevictor)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: fevictor Ottmars music isn't that bad in my opinion, but you have to take it for what it is: simple, repetitive, quite often cheesy rumbas. Sometimes my coworker will play Ottmar at work and with low volume its just nice background music...kind of like taking a pleasant elevator ride! I do like the Gipsy Kings although I have to admit that most songs sound the same. Honestly, it seems to me like every flamenco aficionao who criticizes Ottmar has listened to maybe a couple of songs, and all the popular, very early stuff. If you were to listen to, say, his more recent album "The Scent of Light", I very much doubt you'd call it simplistic and cheesy So I'm a pretty big fan of Ottmar's. The only time I've seen him discuss his music and flamenco is when he's gone out of the way to explain that (despite what many of his listeners - including, at one point, myself - may think) he does not play flamenco. What Ottmar does well is the construction of melody and, more recently, creating very well textured, layered music. I listened to a lot of "fake flamenco" a few years back, before I discovered actual flamenco - Jesse Cook, Armik, Gipsy Kings, etc., a lot of folks who like to pretend that they play flamenco, and thrive on that publicity. Of all those artists, the only one I still listen to (and do often) is Ottmar. There is something very different, very special about his music.
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Date Nov. 20 2009 16:02:47
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xirdneH_imiJ
Posts: 1893
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton
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RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (in reply to Adam)
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i would think you're right if it was about him calling himself a flamenco artist - i think it's more about the marketing machine, as some of these types of guitarists are sold by agents and recording companies as flamenco players, building on the ordinary, not well informed average listeners' misconceptions about flamenco being spanishy sounding guitar music... so i would think most of the anger is not towards the artist himself, i respect all musicians for their efforts, even poor ones, even those who don't really seem to deserve the spotlight they get (and there are more of those, than who really do...)...a topic about one of these guitarists is just a great opportunity to vent our frustrations by saying no thanks, he sucks, it's a disgrace, etc...
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Date Nov. 20 2009 16:46:07
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: What do you think of Ottmar Liebert? (in reply to Adam)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ramparts I listened to a lot of "fake flamenco" a few years back, before I discovered actual flamenco - Jesse Cook, Armik, Gipsy Kings, etc., a lot of folks who like to pretend that they play flamenco, and thrive on that publicity. Many people dont know that GK can play for example a bulerías, fandangos, with everything needed: compas, and a flamenco TONE. I have never seen they call their music flamenco or label an album with it. I guess until Ottmar doesnt change in this regard (its not only one album), he will have to "take it" from flamencos, even if its "just" a business decision. Cool that you found a music you like, but im sure you will understand, that this does not lower the anger some people feel against Ottmar. I listened to some samples of his more recent stuff... nothing special imo.
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Date Nov. 20 2009 23:51:58
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