Thumb click and other thumb stuff

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ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

Thumb click and other thumb stuff

So i have no trouble getting a nice bright click from my thumb.

The issue im having is this. Ya know how some people have those fingertips
that taper to the nail? Well, i dont have that.

I have a rather large gap between where my thumb tip ends, and the nail
begins.
I use a straighter thumb angle for classical, but for flamenco, i have a hard time not letting the thumb bend backwards. I have that back bending thumb thing, sort of like Vicente Amigo's thumb.

Anyway, i find im getting the click sound everywhere, on all thumb notes.
Sometimes i want to round the tone out, but without having to straighten my thumb, because i find this inhibits my finger rest stroke.

I notice, just about everybody i see playing flamenco, when not doing just pulgar, seem to use the side of the thumb. I cant seem to do this and get a good tone.
This is because i dont have enough nail coming off the side of my thumb. So when i try to play off just the side, it ends up sounding thin and funky.

Basically, the only way ive found to not get the click, is to concentrate on hitting
the thumbnail directly on the string. If i hit flesh first, it slides across and i get the click.

Im starting to think this all may be due to my limited practice time, which is hindering me from getting a callous on my thumb.

Could that be what i need? Should i blast alot of thumb work on purpose to build up a big, hard callous on the thumb?

Any thoughts on this??

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 1:42:13

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

Could that be what i need? Should i blast alot of thumb work on purpose to build up a big, hard callous on the thumb?

Well, you need some kind of callous or thick skin there, Todd, otherwise it's painful to play from the side.
I'd be careful about "blasting a lot of thumbwork", as that can lead to a blister, which then takes days to clear up. Then when it comes away, you're left with fresh, sensitive new skin and have to start all over again.

I'd say just normal practise, and stop and change position if it begins to feel burny.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 4:55:32

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to ToddK)

I like it simple and I think that getting a thumb click on all notes is very flamenco. Actually Its one of the most flamenco things I know. I dont need rounded of notes in flamenco.

You think to much and you´re to artistical.

Just play with that click. I love it. In my opinion you could even push it more.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 7:57:44

Bogdan1980

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to ToddK)

Toddk,

Sorry to get off topic, but I noticed it says DC on your avatar there. Where in DC are you? I live in Frederick, MD but work in DC (K Street).

I moved out here two years ago and have not been able to meet anyone who is into flamenco or even classical guitar. I met Ricardo several times, had some lessons but he lives so far away that it's around 2 hours to get there, which sucks. He is really great explaining things and a great player.

Anyhow if you are not too far out somewhere perhaps there is a way to get together for beer or something.

Bogdan

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 8:09:28

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to ToddK)

I also have that problem.

If im playing arpegios i cant get the nail to hit the bass.
Only when i do thumb lines or alzapua.

I dont want to get a moraito nail on my thumb cause its waaaaay to long for me, but that would probably work.

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 11:11:39

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to ToddK)

Well,.. I never thought on callus on the thumb.. When I play much,.. I get it.. when I play less it goes away. No problems with pain.

But when playing much for dance without a callus.. the finger gets "grib" and hinders me to play as easy as before. It gets wet and doesn´t sound good anymore. When having a callus, I can play much longer for dance than without.

But for playing at home its no issue for me. With a good hard thumb protection on the nail...Im set.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 11:19:22

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

the finger gets "grib"

"Grib" is a good word.
I like it... it's like "Gripe" in Spanish...

When you are dying of the 'flu, it feels more like "The Grip" rather than just "The Flu", which sounds just like a minor excuse for not going into work and gains the sympathy of no one.

"The Grip", on the other hand makes your supervisor recoil in horror and is glad he/she is not suffering from it.
(A bit like the hand of Death around your throat.

)

"The Grib of the fingers..."

Hmmm... good...I'll think about it some more..

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 11:39:33

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to ToddK)

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I think i'll just keep doing what im doing.

I'm still relatively new with this, so i think things will just evolve as i play more.

Bodgan, im in Annapolis MD actually. I say Washington DC cause generally, people dont recognize Annapolis or Maryland, but everybody knows the nations capital.

Im not sure how far Fredrick is from here, but i dont think its more than an hour away.
Definately PM me, and we'll get together and have a brew, play some guitar.

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 12:49:39

orsonw

Posts: 1934
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to ToddK)

Firstly I like the sound you get from your thumb, but I think I know what bothers you.
If I grow the nail too long I also get more of a click and I don't like it (my nails also hook over if they're too long, they get stuck on the string).
My nails aren't ideal but maybe few people's are? I think we just have to work with what we have and solutions can be found.
I definately don't want a round sound. I'm after a powerful, aggressive attack of flesh and nail together or maybe in reality nail very quickly after flesh, so it sounds simultaneous. When my nail is too long and makes up too much of the strike it sounds thinner. I have a reasonable callous see photos.
I play arpeggio on the side and pulgar with thumb more angled but still I'm on the side not at right angles.

Here is an idea of the sound I get-

A tarantas (with reverb issues?
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=114980&p=2&tmode=1&smode=1

A negra and a blanca version of Ron's missionary Bulerias falseta
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=116695&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 15:25:58

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

Im starting to think this all may be due to my limited practice time, which is hindering me from getting a callous on my thumb.

Could that be what i need? Should i blast alot of thumb work on purpose to build up a big, hard callous on the thumb?

Any thoughts on this??

yeah you need the callous, and it will come and go as Doit said. No need to over do it (doit lol), but sometimes, cuz I play a lot and sometimes when drinking and partying you dont' think, and I end up with a little blister. I just put glue on it, the same glue I put on the nails, and you dont' feel any burning. That glue is amazing stuff, they call it "second skin" or "liquid bandaid" now adays.

Also I am with some other guys....WHY would you want to NOT click????? Unless you mean for playing classical which I see your point. And right there for example is the heart of the problem of trying to play both styles proficiently. Somethin has to give, tone or technique gets sacrificed.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 20:16:53

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Somethin has to give, tone or technique gets sacrificed.

Thanks for that advice Ricardo! I really need to get up to your place for
some lessons, seriously. I will email you about that.

But yeah, something gets sacrificed. It sucks. Im just really stubborn, and i
continue to push to get both styles to top standards.
Even though deep down, i know i probably never will, i think, well, im having
fun trying.

I am happy to hear you say "why would you not want the click?" That shifts my thoughts on this actually. The reason i was concerned is because i think about it when i hear another guitarist play a passage with little to no click.
I have to remember to just stay focused on what "I" like, and go with what naturally works for me.

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 2 2009 20:23:23

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to ToddK)

quote:

I have to remember to just stay focused on what "I" like, and go with what naturally works for me.

Exactly.
I like your thumb click. Its not to agressive, but its there. I find that when there´s to much distance between flesh and nail, the click might be annoying. The best way to control that is to fill that "space" up with callus.

I find that I can work with different thumb angles towards the string and that changes the amount of click that I get.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 0:36:49

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

fill that "space" up with callus

A great key discovery for me this week

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 3 2009 13:12:32

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

yeah you need the callous

Ricardo,
I am experimenting with my thumb also lately and find that when my thumb is almost 90 degrees towards the strings is works fine, but when I try to play the thumb more parallel to the strings it get hooked.

I read that you said to let the nail grow and the part "left over" needs become filled with callus.

I've attached a picture where below is how my thumb is now, and my questions is, should I let it grow as in the picture on top of it?

When it gets hooked nowadays, I file that part of the thumbnail away, is that wrong?

Thanks!

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 8 2010 9:47:47

James Ashley Mayer

Posts: 115
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to ToddK)

I've always had a problem with my thumb tone. If I grow the nail out, it gets hooked and disrupts my playing. Everything from pulgar to arpeggios to p-m-p triplet rasgueo. So, I end up shortening the overall nail and filing off the outside corner just like Kozz shows in that photo.

I get a nice even tone, but I WANT that bright attack that is associated with the flamenco pulgar. I haven't found happy medium between "click" and "hook".

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 8 2010 20:39:22

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to kozz)

quote:

I read that you said to let the nail grow and the part "left over" needs become filled with callus.

I've attached a picture where below is how my thumb is now, and my questions is, should I let it grow as in the picture on top of it?

When it gets hooked nowadays, I file that part of the thumbnail away, is that wrong?

i dunno if there is a "definitive" answer to this, but mine is filed away (on the left side of the thumb) MORE than yours is in the bottom picture. The length of the nail on the right side of the thumb is as long as the top photo, or a bit longer.

For what it's worth (and i don't consider myself to be a great expert) when i play arpegio/tremelo i play with with thumb almost parallel to strings, or 5-15 degree angle, and use callous only, but when i play pulgar/alzapua i play with the thumb pointed more towards the strings, it's not 90 degrees, but 40-50 degree angle, and i use the nail (also same with abanico etc.)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 8 2010 20:51:41

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to ToddK)

Thanks guys,
in fact its just paying attention to you different thumb positions and file accordingly for the best intermediate?

The upper photo was used by Adobe Photoshop® (were not allowed to say photoshopped anymore

)

I supose I'lll keep filing it away, its very frustrating when the thumb hooks all the time.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2010 6:53:28

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to kozz)

Old thread but I am having thumb tone issues, too. Basically when using nail and flesh I can get a good even, bassy sound only after about I put my thumb at over 55-60 degree angle in relation to the strings. If I use the nail under that angle I get a thin, uneven and "nasal", trebly sound. I have now the thumbnail shaped in similar manner as orsonw's in this topic. Could my issue be due to too little nail hitting the string at angle below 60 degrees? Any suggestions ?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 22 2012 10:49:24

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Thumb click and other thumb stuff (in reply to tele)

For quite some time I got stuck with my thumbnail at the strings and filed the nail down a lot which killed the sound (and the click - I love the click, it is very flamenco).

Then at some point I started to play a lot harder and it solved all my problems.
I have more momentum and don't get stuck as easily and I developed callus that gives me more of a click sound - also because it closes the gap to the nail that I can leave a bit longer now. Still the edge is quite short though...