Low flamenco bridge needed

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

stormserge

Posts: 13
Joined: Oct. 4 2009

Low flamenco bridge needed

Hi. I am new here . I am looking for flamenco guitar bridge. What I see is being sold are mostly classical
bridges but I need low flamenco bridge. Who would have them?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2009 12:37:50

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

DUse tools and loer it by yourself. Just don´t take off too much.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2009 13:40:50

aarongreen

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

You can buy a premade bridge and alter it to your, or more specifically your guitar's, specs. I don't know to what degree these bridges are finished but removing wood is a lot less of a hassle than adding it. The only issue will be if the string holes are present. If so then you may need to fill them and redrill them lower to account for the lower saddle height.

Aaron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2009 13:42:04

jlneng

Posts: 118
Joined: Jun. 28 2009

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

stewart macdonald sells a pre-made bridge that is 9mm thick at the saddle slot. One I measured was 7mm from the base to the top of the saddle slot. I think their 9mm measurement is from the base to the top of the plastic saddle.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Classical_guitar_bridges/Classical_Guitar_Bridges.html

It is a nice light bridge quite suitable for a flamenco...

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2009 14:23:03

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

Bridges are pretty easy to make really. How thin do you need one? I think mine hit about 6.5 after adding the dome for the sound board.

_____________________________

Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2009 16:26:06

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

I think you can get flamenco bridges at Maderas Barber.

My own bridges are 5,5 - 6mm

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2009 0:42:56

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

For the luthiers of this forum, I have this question.

I have seen a number of flamenco guitars from well known luthiers that have bridges with tie blocks which are much higher than the saddle slots. These tie blocks appear to be classical height, and they seem to suggest that the builders took a classical bridge and just lowered the saddle slot to make it work for a flamenco.

My feeling is that flamenco bridges should have tie blocks which are the same height as the saddle slots, for aesthetic reasons as well as less weight (less mass).

Am I wrong with my assessment?

Any opinions or comments?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2009 7:27:44

bugeyed

Posts: 56
Joined: Aug. 24 2009
From: Conroe, Texas

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

I'm not a luthier, but I think the critical relationship in the bridge dimensions is how the looped string is going to effect the string break over the saddle. If the tie block is too high, relative to the saddle, the string break will be compromised. Right? If you don't loop over the top & under the string to tie off, it wouldn't be a problem.

_____________________________

It's not what they call you that matters,
It's what you answer to.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2009 10:56:59

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to bugeyed)

quote:

I'm not a luthier, but I think the critical relationship in the bridge dimensions is how the looped string is going to effect the string break over the saddle. If the tie block is too high, relative to the saddle, the string break will be compromised. Right? If you don't loop over the top & under the string to tie off, it wouldn't be a problem.

Yes, that may also be a problem, but it wasn't with the guitars I was referring to. Some of them had 12 hole tie blocks to help eliminate that situation.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2009 11:29:52

stormserge

Posts: 13
Joined: Oct. 4 2009

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

StewartMac bridge would work but it is too short. My 1958 Contreras has bridge 192mm long.
Back to square one...

I need a very low bridge to deal with action that got too high - about 6-7mm. Original bridge block is
too thick to alter.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2009 12:53:33

jlneng

Posts: 118
Joined: Jun. 28 2009

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

Whether or not you have a 6 hole bridge, a 12, or an 18, the string exiting the tie block must be lower than the break point on the saddle or IMO you will have intonation problems and/or a weak sounding string. I would contact a local luthier and let them solve the problem. A 58 Contreras is worth too much to butcher up. If the bridge is already off of the guitar, modifying the height at the saddle and modifying the tie block or replacing the bridge should be no problem for a skilled luthier. A 12, or 18 hole bridge might be difficult to work on in the tie block area as it is already been weakened by the extra holes. Modifying a tie block & bridge saddle slot would be quite risky while the bridge is attached to the top. My 2 cents....hope this helps..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2009 13:33:37

Graham_B

Posts: 283
Joined: Jul. 10 2007
From: Leigh, Lancashire, UK

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

quote:

I need a very low bridge to deal with action that got too high - about 6-7mm

The action got too high by itself?

I'm not a luthier but could the problem be elsewhere rather than the bridge?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2009 13:35:57

aarongreen

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

To answer your question Ngiorgio, you often see tieblocks a bit higher which is due to the need to have some wood above the string holes and the inlayed bone strips. It gets awfully close when you have a string height of 7 mm off the top at the bridge, which means your probably at the most dealing with a 6mm bridge height. In such cases I will have the back of the tieblock higher than the front, tilting it so it slants down towards the front of the bridge. This helps keep the break angle where I want it.

Other aspects that affect the break angle is the space between the saddle and the front of the tieblock, and where the loop is in relation to the front of the tieblock, when you tie the strings conventionally. Contrary to popular belief, at least IMO, you only need so much break over angle to do the job, more is not necessarily better after a certain point. Certainly it could very easily be a no-thing, that is not better not worse.

Most of us make our bridges to fit each guitar. I have blanks machined out with a few jigs of mine but when it's time I go through them all and pick out the ones I like for each guitar and then modify them accordingly.

Graham is right Stormserge, you should look into this further, you could very easily have other issues that need addressing. I wouldn't mess with the bridge on a 58 Contreras without having a luthier go over the guitar. I didn't even realize he was building back then, that was certainly during or maybe even before his tenure at Ramirez. I'd love to see some pictures.

Aaron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2009 14:49:04

stormserge

Posts: 13
Joined: Oct. 4 2009

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

OK.
1) I AM THE LOCAL LUTHER!

2) Aaron, I got it all wrong - it is 1967 Contreras (That's me who is 1958 - these things get really confusing after certain age)

3) Guitar is pece of crap and it needs a neck reset which I am not willing to do since this is my "practice guitar".
I don't think old Manuelo ever touched this guitar exept, probably, cranked the cash register

There is some other name stamped on the end block inside.
So I was thinking about lifting original bridge and replacing it w/low flamenco bridge so I can practice on it
and contemplate neck reset later.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 29 2009 18:03:11

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

Well, the standard solution on a guitar which is a piece of crap is to shave the front of the bridge where the saddle bone is.

My own practice guitar has a 1,5mm deep saddle slot, and 1mm bone above the bridge and it works perfectly well.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2009 1:32:12

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Aaron,

Thanks for addressing my question.

I understand the need for having enough tie block above the string holes, but the bridges I am referring to had saddle slots that were around 6mm high, and tie blocks which were about 9mm.

I have also seen quite a few guitars with the tie block tilted towards the saddle as you mentioned, in regard to keeping a good break angle.

You make an interesting point regarding too much break angle. I totally agree with you. I think that way too much fuss is made is about that.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 30 2009 8:14:14

aarongreen

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

Hi Stormserge,
In that case I concur with Anders. If you can create an undercut between the tieblock and saddle, you can plug the string holes and redrill them lower. That will help if you have to shave the bridge down. Just make sure you don't run out of saddle slot. That can be deepened as well but it is a pain.

aaron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 31 2009 6:56:44

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

aaron and others: would having a short flamenco bridge be a benefit in that at the onset of the life of the guitar one would use a taller bridge to get to, say 3mm and when the neck angle changes over time one would only need to lower the saddle? it seems to me that having a taller bridge would require a very short saddle and if the neck angle changes one would have very little bone left to take off.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2009 5:40:22

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (in reply to stormserge)

The problem is that you dont know if the guitar will change its neck angle and if it does, how much.
Guitars are living creatures and very individual as well.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Nov. 16 2009 13:03:01