Low flamenco bridge needed (Full Version)

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stormserge -> Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 28 2009 12:37:50)

Hi. I am new here . I am looking for flamenco guitar bridge. What I see is being sold are mostly classical
bridges but I need low flamenco bridge. Who would have them?



Doitsujin -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 28 2009 13:40:50)

DUse tools and loer it by yourself. Just don´t take off too much.



aarongreen -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 28 2009 13:42:04)

You can buy a premade bridge and alter it to your, or more specifically your guitar's, specs. I don't know to what degree these bridges are finished but removing wood is a lot less of a hassle than adding it. The only issue will be if the string holes are present. If so then you may need to fill them and redrill them lower to account for the lower saddle height.

Aaron



jlneng -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 28 2009 14:23:03)

stewart macdonald sells a pre-made bridge that is 9mm thick at the saddle slot. One I measured was 7mm from the base to the top of the saddle slot. I think their 9mm measurement is from the base to the top of the plastic saddle.

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Classical_guitar_bridges/Classical_Guitar_Bridges.html

It is a nice light bridge quite suitable for a flamenco...



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Stephen Eden -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 28 2009 16:26:06)

Bridges are pretty easy to make really. How thin do you need one? I think mine hit about 6.5 after adding the dome for the sound board.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 29 2009 0:42:56)

I think you can get flamenco bridges at Maderas Barber.

My own bridges are 5,5 - 6mm



ngiorgio -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 29 2009 7:27:44)

For the luthiers of this forum, I have this question.

I have seen a number of flamenco guitars from well known luthiers that have bridges with tie blocks which are much higher than the saddle slots. These tie blocks appear to be classical height, and they seem to suggest that the builders took a classical bridge and just lowered the saddle slot to make it work for a flamenco.

My feeling is that flamenco bridges should have tie blocks which are the same height as the saddle slots, for aesthetic reasons as well as less weight (less mass).

Am I wrong with my assessment?

Any opinions or comments?



bugeyed -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 29 2009 10:56:59)

I'm not a luthier, but I think the critical relationship in the bridge dimensions is how the looped string is going to effect the string break over the saddle. If the tie block is too high, relative to the saddle, the string break will be compromised. Right? If you don't loop over the top & under the string to tie off, it wouldn't be a problem.



ngiorgio -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 29 2009 11:29:52)

quote:

I'm not a luthier, but I think the critical relationship in the bridge dimensions is how the looped string is going to effect the string break over the saddle. If the tie block is too high, relative to the saddle, the string break will be compromised. Right? If you don't loop over the top & under the string to tie off, it wouldn't be a problem.


Yes, that may also be a problem, but it wasn't with the guitars I was referring to. Some of them had 12 hole tie blocks to help eliminate that situation.



stormserge -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 29 2009 12:53:33)

StewartMac bridge would work but it is too short. My 1958 Contreras has bridge 192mm long.
Back to square one...[:(]
I need a very low bridge to deal with action that got too high - about 6-7mm. Original bridge block is
too thick to alter.



jlneng -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 29 2009 13:33:37)

Whether or not you have a 6 hole bridge, a 12, or an 18, the string exiting the tie block must be lower than the break point on the saddle or IMO you will have intonation problems and/or a weak sounding string. I would contact a local luthier and let them solve the problem. A 58 Contreras is worth too much to butcher up. If the bridge is already off of the guitar, modifying the height at the saddle and modifying the tie block or replacing the bridge should be no problem for a skilled luthier. A 12, or 18 hole bridge might be difficult to work on in the tie block area as it is already been weakened by the extra holes. Modifying a tie block & bridge saddle slot would be quite risky while the bridge is attached to the top. My 2 cents....hope this helps..



Graham_B -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 29 2009 13:35:57)

quote:

I need a very low bridge to deal with action that got too high - about 6-7mm


The action got too high by itself?

I'm not a luthier but could the problem be elsewhere rather than the bridge?



aarongreen -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 29 2009 14:49:04)

To answer your question Ngiorgio, you often see tieblocks a bit higher which is due to the need to have some wood above the string holes and the inlayed bone strips. It gets awfully close when you have a string height of 7 mm off the top at the bridge, which means your probably at the most dealing with a 6mm bridge height. In such cases I will have the back of the tieblock higher than the front, tilting it so it slants down towards the front of the bridge. This helps keep the break angle where I want it.

Other aspects that affect the break angle is the space between the saddle and the front of the tieblock, and where the loop is in relation to the front of the tieblock, when you tie the strings conventionally. Contrary to popular belief, at least IMO, you only need so much break over angle to do the job, more is not necessarily better after a certain point. Certainly it could very easily be a no-thing, that is not better not worse.

Most of us make our bridges to fit each guitar. I have blanks machined out with a few jigs of mine but when it's time I go through them all and pick out the ones I like for each guitar and then modify them accordingly.


Graham is right Stormserge, you should look into this further, you could very easily have other issues that need addressing. I wouldn't mess with the bridge on a 58 Contreras without having a luthier go over the guitar. I didn't even realize he was building back then, that was certainly during or maybe even before his tenure at Ramirez. I'd love to see some pictures.

Aaron



stormserge -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 29 2009 18:03:11)

OK.
1) I AM THE LOCAL LUTHER!

2) Aaron, I got it all wrong - it is 1967 Contreras (That's me who is 1958 - these things get really confusing after certain age)

3) Guitar is pece of crap and it needs a neck reset which I am not willing to do since this is my "practice guitar".
I don't think old Manuelo ever touched this guitar exept, probably, cranked the cash register[:D]
There is some other name stamped on the end block inside.
So I was thinking about lifting original bridge and replacing it w/low flamenco bridge so I can practice on it
and contemplate neck reset later.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 30 2009 1:32:12)

Well, the standard solution on a guitar which is a piece of crap is to shave the front of the bridge where the saddle bone is.

My own practice guitar has a 1,5mm deep saddle slot, and 1mm bone above the bridge and it works perfectly well.



ngiorgio -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 30 2009 8:14:14)

Aaron,

Thanks for addressing my question.

I understand the need for having enough tie block above the string holes, but the bridges I am referring to had saddle slots that were around 6mm high, and tie blocks which were about 9mm.

I have also seen quite a few guitars with the tie block tilted towards the saddle as you mentioned, in regard to keeping a good break angle.

You make an interesting point regarding too much break angle. I totally agree with you. I think that way too much fuss is made is about that.



aarongreen -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Oct. 31 2009 6:56:44)

Hi Stormserge,
In that case I concur with Anders. If you can create an undercut between the tieblock and saddle, you can plug the string holes and redrill them lower. That will help if you have to shave the bridge down. Just make sure you don't run out of saddle slot. That can be deepened as well but it is a pain.

aaron



keith -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Nov. 16 2009 5:40:22)

aaron and others: would having a short flamenco bridge be a benefit in that at the onset of the life of the guitar one would use a taller bridge to get to, say 3mm and when the neck angle changes over time one would only need to lower the saddle? it seems to me that having a taller bridge would require a very short saddle and if the neck angle changes one would have very little bone left to take off.



Anders Eliasson -> RE: Low flamenco bridge needed (Nov. 16 2009 13:03:01)

The problem is that you dont know if the guitar will change its neck angle and if it does, how much.
Guitars are living creatures and very individual as well.



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