A two guitar problem

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gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

A two guitar problem

Why do I have two guitars? Wouldn’t it be more efficient to focus the financial investment on one? Yet even when I think of selling, I think of trading one and acquire another. Do we really need two or more guitars?
One could excuse the whim by suggesting the one guitar will have sweeter or warmer tones juxtaposed to the other’s drier and ringing sound. One perhaps a Negra along with a Blanca.

I fear that the reason is simply because we like guitars. We press our noses against a guitar website on the screen as children would against the window of a candy store, and we irresistibly desire one. Anther Conde, or Gerundino… another Vasquez Rubio. Why?

The only aspect of my new guitar that fails me is the comparison with the old one, which surprisingly does not compare with the new one. But its existence in the same room generates a competitive tension.

Does Vicente have only one Reyes, or a plurality out of which he affectionately always picks the same? What does Ricardo do out of his collection?

I am suddenly seized by an unfashionable monogamous instinct, and want to learn every nuance and shade, every unsuspected twist and hidden corner of One and Only.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2009 16:42:41

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to gj Michelob)

The solution may be to sell BOTH, pool the money together, add a extra funds and buy ONE guitar that surpasses both.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2009 19:11:28

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to gj Michelob)

We buy and sell guitars because we are always looking for that little extra. That thing that our very best guitar lacks. Its impossible to make the perfect guitar, so we are constantly looking for the one that suits us the best right now.

Sometimes we grow out of guitars like we did with clothes when we were kids, and sometimes we just get tired of them. The worst is when we try someone elses guitar and we realize that we like it better than our own.

Its a never ending story. Especially because guitars are relatively cheap. (compared to most clasical instruments) When I played the violin, I never thought of changing my violin because I knew that it would cost me the same as purchasing 3 - 5 Conde Felipe.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2009 19:20:34

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Good point. A professional classical violin is around 80,000 + euro these days.
I think guitarists can afford to be polygamous!
From a practical point of view I have found that you cant actually play more than about 4 guitars. I have a practice guitar, a beach /bar guitar, an electrified flamenco and a concert guitar. Any more than that and they end up sitting in the case for months on end without being played and that can lead to problems with cracking and loss of sound. A good way to spoil an excellent guitar is to not play it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 12 2009 23:43:29

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to Pimientito)

At the last class of the course I organise four of us turned up early and all played each others guitars. It was really interesting, to hear the different sounds. And one of us had a conde

which I didn't manage to sneak into my case by "accident"

When I bought my Bernal last year I think I was just lucky because when you are starting out you are not sure what sound you are going to produce when you have better technique. So I'm planning to stick with this for a couple more years and see where I get to. In the meantime I plan to have a try on everyone else's guitar!!

quote:

original: gj Michelob
I am suddenly seized by an unfashionable monogamous instinct, and want to learn every nuance and shade, every unsuspected twist and hidden corner of One and Only.

mmmmm.... no don't have that problem.

I wonder if it's possible to have a 'one and only' - perhaps you would want different guitars for different music, different situations?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2009 1:51:51

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

I have a practice guitar, a beach /bar guitar, an electrified flamenco and a concert guitar.

Hi Pimientito,
what's a practise guitar? If I would have the choice I would always practise on my guitar which I would like best.

I am not in that position yet, but towards the end of the year I would like to buy an Anders Blanca. Then that guitar would be the one I would play all the time, and the 3F would be one to take to beach and park.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2009 4:55:57

DavidT

Posts: 181
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to GuitarVlog)

Hey GuitarVlog,

I take a look at your Web site blog.
Very interesting...
How do you find time to write all of those?

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Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2009 6:58:38

GuitarVlog

Posts: 441
Joined: Mar. 19 2009
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to DavidT)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavidT
How do you find time to write all of those?

Thanks Dave. Probably because I haven't been spending as much time on the foro as before.

I dunno. Seems natural for me. Besides, the journal is supposed to be a practice log to help me move forward. Helps to write. Doesn't take me more than ten minutes unless I have to post a pic.

Going back on topic.

I think Pimientito is right unless you play something other than flamenco. His "practice" guitar is probably his emergency back-up guitar and it probably travels more than his concert guitar.

All my guitars are practice guitars. I'm not good enough for a concert guitar yet. I might get a smaller beach guitar that can put-up with the heat.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2009 7:13:39

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to gj Michelob)

An interesting experience I made recently was when commissioning my Anders blanca:

I had become dissatisfied with my '87 Manuel Bellido blanca, found it/her (!?!) too mellow, without any "bite" ...
So I figured I'd sell her and get a new, "crisp" blanca.
I advertised the Bellido here and elsewhere and visited Anders and commissioned my "New Baby".

As soon as she was here, I found myself constantly switching guitars, comparing the two and secretly hoped that nobody would buy the Bellido. Then a buyer tried out the Bellido and was so full of praise, I almost didn't sell after all.

Now, after a couple of months I'm happily monogamous again (I do have an old classical guitar that I keep because it was a gift from my father, but I hardly ever play it...)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2009 9:27:48

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to edguerin)

Guitars have always been a bit like girlfriends (in the past) really.
I've never (really) cheated, but was always faithful to the one I was with at the time.

I think it takes a lot of time to build up a relationship with a guitar.

You know it's shortcomings and areas of non-compliance.
And it knows yours..

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2009 10:34:18

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Guitars have always been a bit like girlfriends (in the past) really.
I've never (really) cheated, but was always faithful to the one I was with at the time.

I think it takes a lot of time to build up a relationship with a guitar.

You know it's shortcomings and areas of non-compliance.
And it knows yours..

cheers,

Ron

and i dont like others using my guitar. but for some reason, it's okay for me to try other guitars.

if i could, i would have a blanca and negra that would be my main guitars, and a guitar to travel, bring to the beach, friend's house, etc. the blanca would be my main course but the others would be my side dishes.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2009 14:16:42

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

Why do I have two guitars?

Yes, guitars.
I have a few and have recently decided to sell as many as I feel I can.
I don't know which one (or two) I will retain, but it's better they are out there being played by folk who will cherish them rather than spending most of their time in their cases unplayed.
One good guitar should be enough but I know I'd keep looking around for something else.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2009 14:42:37

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to gj Michelob)

I am a friend of having and playing only one guitar at a time.
During time, you get to know your guitar better and better and know exactly what you have to do with her.
Your playing, your hands, little details of movement etc. adapts to that guitar and Vice Versa.
When switching guitars often, you loose these little details and have to adjust again.
Of course, provided that you have a good guitar and like it.
I still don't have that guitar so still looking for THE ONE!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2009 14:53:11

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to gj Michelob)

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

Why do I have two guitars?

Aha, the million dollar question. Very good point gj Michelob. I 'll tell you why! ..........

Because....

1) you can
2) you believe that you still have not found the right guitar and therfore keep looking for the right one that's going to make you sound better
3) there is no law that says it's forbidden
4) you think something is going to happen to the one you have and you will be left guitarless for a while until you find another one

Imagine, it was socially acceptable for men to marry more than one woman at a time! what would you say? "No"...of course not....

you would argue that each one is for something different.

Same thing applies to the guitar, you can not play every music on one guitar. Some pieces sound better on one kind and some better on others. You can only make that conclusion when you have more than one guitar and try it side by side.

Again, good job for asking.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 13 2009 15:02:51

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to tk)

I recognize my own inclination in many of the explanations offered in your replies. I do not suppose we can resist the desire to try and buy new guitars. I agree that it is on the one hand the implacable quest for the perfect instrument, while on the other hand a defense mechanism calming the fear to ever be guitar-less. A collecting mania, perhaps, translating in that impulsive behavior disorder that wants us to have more.

I think Harash hits my spot
“During time, you get to know your guitar better and better and know exactly what you have to do with her.
Your playing, your hands, little details of movement etc. adapts to that guitar and Vice Versa.
When switching guitars often, you loose these little details and have to adjust again.”

While Ron is inevitably witty in his distinctive insight
“Guitars have always been a bit like girlfriends (in the past) really.
I've never (really) cheated, but was always faithful to the one I was with at the time.
I think it takes a lot of time to build up a relationship with a guitar.”

However, if Jim is pondering reducing his collection, I wonder if we this isn’t becoming a common trend, monogamy.

Of course… with the exception of the beach/bar escapade, as Pimientito reserves, when you just need a cheaper “date”.

TK leaves us with some rationale and resonable explanations, but above all with the sense that this 2 guitar problem is a natural part of loving the instrument.

I knew an Arab prince (who does not know one, somewhere at some point) who invited me to dinner obsessively; I am sure all he wanted was to learn some of my falsetas. He had –as you can imagine- quite a number of guitars, and exaggeratedly expensive for the level he was at. Too many, for that matter, and he could not play any.

My take is that th prince was hoping that the next and more expensive instrument would facilitate his impaired learning process…. But it did not. By the same token, we all sometimes hope that another instrumnet would enhance sound while freeing more of our hands’ agility. As if it represented a way out of those stalling flat moments which recurrently trap our growth. And a new guitar my inspire new excitement, indeed. Change is good, and even necessary. Yet, as the greek fable warned us, the donkey died, famished, while undecided about which stash of grass he should eat first…

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2009 6:12:31

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

By the same token, we all sometimes hope that another instrumnet would enhance sound while freeing more of our hands’ agility. As if it represented a way out of those stalling flat moments which recurrently trap our growth. And a new guitar my inspire new excitement, indeed. Change is good, and even necessary. Yet, as the greek fable warned us, the donkey died, famished, while undecided about which stash of grass he should eat first…

As Ron said: "Guitars have always been a bit like girlfriends"

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El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2009 8:56:46

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to edguerin)

I think guitars are like dogs.

My Negra is like my Big Lab Shepherd mix, kind of mean, snarls a lot,
and will bite if you're not carefull, and he doesn't like you. But the one I want
with me if a bad guy shows up at the door. The one my 90+ grandmother
likes as well - "Says, I really like the black one, because he doesn't like
anybody, so he makes you feel special when he lets you pet him".

My Blanca is like my yellow Chesapeake Bay Retreiver, friendly to everybody
rolls on her back and lets anybody pet her. Never complains,and never causes
a problem.

Jeff

quote:

As Ron said: "Guitars have always been a bit like girlfriends"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 14 2009 12:09:44

DonS

Posts: 232
Joined: Mar. 1 2007
From: Florida and San Francisco Cali

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to gj Michelob)

funny thread and responses...I think all are valid at least for me. IMO, there is no perfect guitar and like TK mentioned there are pieces that don't sound as good on guitar as to the another. The quest is to find that "right" guitar that has that perfect balance - if that is possible.

To me playability is numero uno then comes sound, aesthetics etc because if you can't play the guitar, I don't care how good the guitar sounds, you won't ever pick it back up. Its important to find a brand, luthier etc etc that you like then eventually find the best sound guitar from that maker. Find a guitar that "fits" just like finding a wife after living with her before marriage (which I totally believe in) regardless of being raised Catholic

I won't forget what an aunt told me in the past "women are pretty much all the same in characteristics..nice, caring..loving etc etc..but find the one that fits you" I think this is how the BETTER guitars are..they are all pretty much the same and the differences are very minute. I think having three guitars is perfect for me. One for gigs, 2nd for back up and third for recording but if I had to, two guitars would be just fine

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2009 11:24:45

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to DonS)

quote:

Find a guitar that "fits" just like finding a wife after living with her before marriage (which I totally believe in) regardless of being raised Catholic

Hey Don,

But what if you were a Mormon Flamenco student?
or a Saudi Sheik?
(Maybe explains why gj's Arab Prince had so many guitars..

)

LOL...A Guitar Harem!...I can just picture it!

Weve gotta be inclusive here man.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2009 11:51:19

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

(Maybe explains why gj's Arab Prince had so many guitars.. )

Just dawned on me...

The FEMINIST answer would be...

Yeah....and couldn't play a tune on ANY of them!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2009 12:19:01

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to Ron.M)

Ron, your last two posts are superbly elegant strikes of fine humore. 'Love hat Scot's quick-witted tongue.

But I am indulging on the serene sound of Don’s more demure perspective, while I keep comparing these two girlfriends.

It’s always easy to choose which to keep… it is which to lose that I can’t really sort out.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2009 13:06:32

DonS

Posts: 232
Joined: Mar. 1 2007
From: Florida and San Francisco Cali

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

Hey Don,

But what if you were a Mormon Flamenco student?
or a Saudi Sheik?
(Maybe explains why gj's Arab Prince had so many guitars.. )

LOL...A Guitar Harem!...I can just picture it!

Weve gotta be inclusive here man.

cheers,

Ron

Heck if I was Mormon I would'nt have enough time to play flamenco guitar LOL! You know what they say: "Music (or guitars in our case) and Women go hand in hand"just kdding of course *wink wink*

Mich: I say keep both...or you'll be sorry and miss the other one too much...I'm just talking from experience that is IF the other guitar is a really good one. I've sold many good guitars and weeks later miss iit. BTW, how did your concert go? did you use the solo amp?

Don

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2009 14:26:23

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: A two guitar problem (in reply to DonS)

quote:

Mich: I say keep both...or you'll be sorry and miss the other one too much...I'm just talking from experience that is IF the other guitar is a really good one. I've sold many good guitars and weeks later miss iit. BTW, how did your concert go? did you use the solo amp?
Don

Often, we pose a query to collect the views of others, but we are rarely dissuaded from our original intents. However, Don, contrary to my proverbial mule-like obstinacy in pursuing my resolve, you persuaded me to abandon my irresolvable dilemma and keep both parts of the problem.

I will accept my recurrent mood swings and follow the call of each guitar as it comes. I will keep both Conde Negra and GV Rubio Blanca, as somewhere “in media virtus” virtue is in the middle, between two guitars, that is (with two girls virtue would not lay as comfortably in the middle, between the two… no i do not suppose it would)

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2009 16:24:22

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: A two guitar problem: SALE (in reply to gj Michelob)

Well contrary to my earlier resolve to keep both of the two (guitar problem) I have instead decided to sell both.

1. German Vazquez Rubio 2008, Blanca. Purchased March ’08 at $4,500

[Note, I loved this guitar. It really has the sound and playability I had always looked for in a guitar. In fact, my wife unexpectedly showed great interest in my music since hearing my serenades on this instrument. It is brilliant and loud, while allowing emphasis on any subtle nuance. Above all, it conveyed inspiration and beauty like no other guitar I had. I am selling it because it is a gift from a client I resigned. A rather difficult decision to take and, I am sure to understand. It may be out of the stiffest kind of integrity, but I cannot keep it. Hence, the steep discount in the sale price… $3,500.]

Currently at LaFalseta http://www.lafalseta.com/Previously_Owned.html

2. Conde Hermanos AF/25 R 2006, Negra (Caviuna –billed by seller, GSI, as Brazilian Rosewood). Purchased February ’07 at $10,000 [currently at $12,500]

I have spoken about this instrument quite incessantly. The reason I want to sell it is that I want to buy a Blanca from GVR and have it as my sole guitar (see above why…).

It has developed a superficial scratch 2 inch long (as think as a hair, really) GVR confirmed to be solely on the finish (not a wood crack) and asked me $350 to refinish the top and require about 3 weeks to complete.
If there is any interest, I will sell this through LaFalseta.

It is basically identical to this http://www.guitarsalon.com/product.php?productid=3277
[but white mother of pearl Fustero tuners]

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2009 8:39:18

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: A two guitar problem: SALE (in reply to gj Michelob)

It's not the best time to sell high-end musical instruments. Why not buy what you want now and wait until the economy improves in a few years. At least that way you have a chance of getting what they're worth.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2009 10:12:32

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: A two guitar problem: SALE (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

It's not the best time to sell high-end musical instruments. Why not buy what you want now and wait until the economy improves in a few years. At least that way you have a chance of getting what they're worth.

Absolutely true for the Conde. I will see if there is any interest overe it; otherwise have GVR refinish the scratch and hold on to it through the economic hardship. Yet, coherently with the thread, I am inspired by the idea of having one and only guitar.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2009 10:41:48

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: A two guitar problem: SALE (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

I am inspired by the idea of having one and only guitar.

It would make more sense if you played electric--since one guitar can have several basic sounds which can be modified with effects. I liked Don's suggestion and would add that you have to find that "one" guitar that plays well and sounds great to motivate you over the coming years--until then I would experiment. It seems that Jim Opfer has the opposite take on things. I'm not aware of anyone else who is constantly seeking, and more restless, when it comes to top quality instruments. Also, you might consider that your tastes could change over the years due to different factors and an instrument that you do not currently value highly might end up better suiting your needs in the future.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2009 10:58:32

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: A two guitar problem: SALE (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

you have to find that "one" guitar that plays well and sounds great to motivate you over the coming years--until then I would experiment.

Ironically i had found what i was looking for... the German Vazquez Rubio now at LaFalseta. I had spent no less than a thousand dollars to painstakingly change the action until it measured to absolute perfection [by the way the original nut/saddle set is preserved in the guitar's case, should a buyer wish to restore the original feel]. I had the luthier rework the frets to the smoothest surface, free of any uncomfortable friction.

Hopefully, I will buy anohter one and work my way with it 'in that relentless persuit of the happiness I now am to let go.

But, please do not misunderstand my contradicting your generally sound advice, Phg_Flamenco. I have learnt, however, that as much we like to ponder matters, a lot in life is ultimately following one's instinct.The beauty is -as you point out- how perception changes over time and how in turn we may feel differently about what today is (seems) the absolute Truth.

Fortunately, with Ron's, guitars are a bit like girlfriends and one does not need to go to court and pay spousal support in order to change guitar