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Guitarists and competition
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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 Guitarists and competition
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I have too much time at the moment and like to wander my thoughts around this...
Since a dancer told me, that guitarrists would be very competetive, i was curious why is that. I was and am not aware of it, i am the only guitarist in our (amateur) group.
The fact is, i even tried hard to get a second guitarist, because i thought i could save myself some work and relax more when playing  but i seriously have not found anybody who i felt was secure enough in compas to play a 60 min gig. 
Anyways, now that i moved in another town, i actually realize that its not that easy to get people to play with. I start to understand what flamenco becomes when you see it like a business, which is a view pros have to get on to earn a living. Competition. Im pretty sure there is a lot of back talk, and although it doesnt sounds like, i dont really care i have to say, since im quite busy enough. I had much time to focus on technique and falsetas, which have helped my playing alot in the last months. I have more time to perfect the falsetas.
It can change anyday, just takes one phone call, or one personal contact or meeting  or a bit more of promoting myself. Its just, that i would feel like stepping on someone elses toes, and i dont want to be a guy that does that...
Im sounding bitter, but im really not. Im just watching the scene and make my thoughts. Im not "in" the scene. Either way, it works for me. Im financially independent, i dont HAVE to do gigs or dance classes. I actually appreciate the extra time i have from not having to do dance classes and rehearsals (which i enjoyed of course).
SO what are your thoughts? Do you experienced similar things? Do you think competition is positive? Or is it an obstacle, caused by financial circumstances? (that would be my view)
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Фламенко
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Date May 22 2009 13:52:15
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John O.
Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany
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RE: Guitarists and competition (in reply to XXX)
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There will always be competition financially, it's like that with any free-lancing profession. You can't worry about stepping on someone's toes, because that person has probably stepped on another persons toes in the past too. You can't just sit in a corner and do nothing because you're afraid of stealing business.
Otherwise, I think there's always an underlining competetive feeling in the back of everyone's head, partly also because of the financial aspect. "He's not a real pro, you can't book him, he doesn't deserve pay for a performance etc.", when really the best teacher is the stage - you'll never be a pro unless you start somewhere.
The correct ones keep it to themselves and don't talk trash. I do my best but I know there are people in my area who don't. I work with people who are more or less experienced than myself as long as I can trust and get along with them and they can entertain the croud we're playing for. The audience doesn't care who plays better.
A better player will give you the chance to learn something and urge you to work harder, that's as far as the competition should go.
There's a lot of negativity in the flamenco scene, you'll hear trash about even the best players. The best thing is to ignore all the negativity the best you can, only talk good of others or not at all. The rest will come by itself. At least that's worked for me up to now.
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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
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Date May 22 2009 14:03:40
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: Guitarists and competition (in reply to John O.)
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Surely, i agree 100%.
I would never talk bad of someone, and ALL the people i have met so far were very nice to me. Well, to ME.. Its just that i cant be sure if that was real, or if i am just a business card, which is kept in the addressbook, for the case that it will be needed in future. I am a very open guy, sharing alot. Sometimes this is a disadvantage. But thats how i am. No tactics.
Yes maybe its because im an amateur. But im also not the worst player in my area, and others know that too...
I think competition is good, if its about flamenco, and getting better, motivating each other.
If its about competing for a job, meaning against somebody, then its lame IMO.
But as i said, it can change quickly if i want to. Im just not trying so hard. And eventually it will happen, but i dont need it "now".
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Фламенко
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Date May 22 2009 14:36:00
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: Guitarists and competition (in reply to John O.)
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it cant be helped, the more you do or the longher you are doing it the more gossip there is about you lol
you just go in wanting to play but somehow just end up in the midlle of scandals with people badmouthing you
regardless of whatever i think of someone id never bag him, expecially to outsiders or students...not even people i dislike..cause it just makes you and the whole flamenco scene look cheap ..(some dance teachers, and singer dont exactly see it that way )
but it cant be helped, theres gossip about you..the gossip its pretty crazy in adelaide lol acording to gossip i was having affairs to married teachers whos husband was my friend guitarrist, i was a heroine addict (cause i lost weight when i split up with my ex), i cant remember what else i head but theres been some beauties..
take it for what it is...if you know what to expect, it dosent affect you that much u can just lough it off
and sometimes you end up beeing just as bad with the gossiping..everyone likes to think that they dont...but i gues to a certain extent we all do it (its very eazy to do and sometimes you dont realise that you are doing it, over a coffe or a beer without realizing)..even if inocent...but some do it more than others
the guitarrists are the most civilized and respectfull of eachother here, we are all pretty much mates, really comfortabile having a beer with any guitarist in adelaide..its always been that way ...the dancers , teachers, singers might hate eachother and us but the guitarists always stay mates
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Date May 22 2009 21:43:29
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: Guitarists and competition (in reply to XXX)
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quote:
there is a lot of back talk
there are a few problems that i notice.
One is that ego thing, usually when someone feels so insecure about their abilities (regardless of how good or bad they are) that they feel a need to big themselves up all the time, and put everyone else down. It is a real problem, 'cos being around someone like that, they are always doing it subtly, and it is difficult not to end up letting off steam about it by telling someone else, and ending up doing that back talk thing....
Another one is when people set themselves up as performers or teachers and they're not very good, but they don't realise it, or they don't want to. They try to do things that are too difficult for them, and they don't do them well, sometimes they try to teach them to other people who are also not at a level where they can do it either.... and someone says, "oh, so-and-so is so wonderful" or "i saw such-and-such advertised, what do you think?" and you just have to bite your tongue and keep your mouth shut or you are doing that back talk thing again....
Another one is when someone, regardless of their own ability, compares everyone they hear and see to the very best cd' and dvd's and stage shows etc., so pretty much everything and everyone else is not very good by comparison, and they bad mouth everyone and everything....
i think it's particularly a problem in flamenco because there is so much to learn, and so little knowledge about it generally (in the UK at least, i don't know about elsewhere), that these problems come up when people learn a little, and start to be able to distiguish and discriminate....
i used to be pretty bad at some of these things, and was around a lot of it that really got me down.... but the more i learn the more i realise i don't know and i'm a bit more humble now.... these things are still problems though
the bottom line for me is i like playing guitar, and i want to be as good as i can be, not compared to anyone else, just compared to myself, i don't see it as a competitive thing, and when other people do, i don't want to be around them
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Date May 23 2009 11:12:48
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Ricardo
Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Guitarists and competition (in reply to XXX)
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Competition is important in the arts, like it or not. The (relatively) greater artist walks in the room and the others that understand the level, get scared. Those that dont "get it" or understand the level, are not affected at all. The result for those that get "scared" or realize the level is higher than or at least equal to their own, can be either positive or negative. Positive could mean the fear turns into inspiriation, or becoming more humble or ask for lessons, or drive to do better on ones own, or even a collaboration of some sort (can't beat em, join em type thing). The negative is when the fear turns to envy or jealousy, resentment, etc.
Financial things are an other issue. I have students that charge more money than me for certain situations, and there is no real competition we feel at in that regard. When it comes to doing the EXACT same gig, well that is different of course. I find if my peers, or those i consider the same calibur as myself for a certain job, offer to charge significantly LESS money than I or other collegues would, that is a problem.
Ricardo
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Date May 23 2009 11:18:19
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: Guitarists and competition (in reply to XXX)
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Sure Ricardo, competition itself is not bad t all. Competition is actually only one apect of what i actually meant. My choice of words wasnt good. I mean, as a guitarist, and probably also dancer, you are always compared with others, and the level of your playing is only one aspect of it. Your standing in the area is probably more worth than how good you are in compas. After thinking about it last night, i came to the conclusion, i would get WAY different reactions if i would be a pro. I can exclude that its my level or personality. So, there is not much else left as explanation...
Another thing is, well, im somehow "the new guy" in the area. I had hoped to get in contact with guitarists and their groups, and learn from them maybe by collaborating with them in a way or another. But instead i sense a fear that i would steal business, which is ridiculous since im an amateur and am not interested in money. I know that these things will get solved by time, because you get to know each other more and more well.
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Date May 23 2009 11:45:04
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: Guitarists and competition (in reply to Ricardo)
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Interesting posts. These human dynamics of competitive trades and society roles are undoubtedly applicable to the corporate ladder as much to ecclesiastic hierarchy, we compete for the attention of bartenders, taxi cabs and girls, for acceptance by employers or clients, for the agreement of a jury…We all compete, and do so inevitably.
A gentlemanly competition, however, is for a few to afford and handle. The ability to respect others, even when adversaries, is certainly the discriminating factor measuring one’s superiority to selfish and petty appetites.
Resorting to derogatorily criticizing competing concerns to further our interest is a repulsive aspect of any political application: some diplomatically negotiate their words to gently destroy their opponent, some aren’t as smooth, neither kind is above reproach.
Perhaps one way to avoid competing is to constantly reinvent oneself and always seeking a new niche to one’s trade or art, to make oneself singular and unique.
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gj Michelob
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Date May 23 2009 13:06:50
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