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Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia
CG171SF's tone
Hi guys, I found this on youtube, it's supposedly played on a CG171SF. Please tell me the Yamaha don't sound like that in real life and it's tone is just due to the low quality recording. or does the Yamaha actually sound exactly like that in real life!?!
Not that the Yamaha sounds like a 5000$ Guitar, but sorry , a video from a guy who is playing with a pick some jazzy things is not the right way to find out if a flamenco guitar sounds good or bad. Low quality is another point but not in this case.
I bet this guy would exactly sound like this with a Conde A26 either.
Flamenco guitars are just not the right guitars for the style this guy is playing (not that he is playing bad or something)
However, i had a Yamaha and it sounds Ok., nothing special but also not too crappy. For the price it is a good guitar to start with.
thanks so much alex_lord.. sounds so much better in your video,. I was getting a heart attack thinking the guitar that's coming to me in march sounds like the video i posted.. it sounds like a toy guitar in the video i posted..
hey there Henry, thanks for the links! just quick question, won't changing the nut make bar chords easier or are you talking about barring higher up the neck? Because changing the bridge's height would affect from about 5th fret up and won't significantly change the height of the lower fret's action. I could be mistaken tho.
ORIGINAL: nealf That is very heavy for a blanca, for comparison my Ramirez FL2 blanca weighed in at 2.5lbs and my Conde Gravina Negra weighed in at 3.25 lbs.
True. But of course there are trade-offs.
Yamaha = Laminated B/S student guitar = $300
Ramirez FL2 = Solid B/S = $3000
Conde Hermanos Gravina Negra = Solid B/S = $3600
You could probably find a lighter instrument if you bought a Navarro blanca for about $800-$900 from Tom at La Falseta. The Yamaha is strictly a budget-student instrument.
i would imagin, that it would take less quality control to build a heavy guitar ie= thick top, sides, back etc.
To build a guitar with a thinner top, sides, etc, and light bracing, it would require alot more quality control and craftsmanship in order for the guitar to be durable, and solid, and able to withstand climate changes and getting banged around without shrinking, swelling, cracking, etc
Makes sence Todd. Thanks all. As for attack and sound, i heard that it is not so much about beeing blanca or Negra (back and sides), but its mostly about soundboard. So you can have a "Negra sounding" blanca and a "blanca sounding" Negra, depending what the luthier does with the soundboard.
However, i guess a "dull sounding" blanca is not desirable (whereas a Negra with sharp sound and attack is desirable and intended to have this combination of depth, Volume AND attack), so i would guess that it is a sign that it is a cheap factory guitar whenever a blanca sounds too dull. Again, i am no expert.
To build a guitar with a thinner top, sides, etc, and light bracing, it would require alot more quality control and craftsmanship in order for the guitar to be durable, and solid, and able to withstand climate changes and getting banged around without shrinking, swelling, cracking, etc
There is this cheap Saez 22 Flamenco Guitar for instance which has a very thin soundboard etc. and is light and sounds very good for the price (it is about 500 Euros), it sounds better than the yamaha,,,,,but i read in another forum and from a dealer that there has been a lot of cracks after a while if the guitar has been played intensively (with a lot Golpes. etc) and some complaints therefore and that one must handle these guitars carefully.
ORIGINAL: nealf Building a guitar with a thinner top/back/sides is not going to increase costs for Yamaha, in fact when you look at multiples of thousands units it actually makes good sense to use as little of the raw material as possible.
In this case, it would probably increase the cost. The back and sides of the CG171SF are laminates. They're cypress layers on a what I suspect is a core layer of mahogany. In mass production, laminates are cheaper to use for the B/S. My understanding is that laminates are heavier and that probably explains the Yamaha's weight.
The others are lighter in part because they use solid woods for the back and sides.
Todd's speculation that the guitar is overbuilt to increase durability is probably true as well.
I don't even see the point of comparing the Yamaha against those two instruments. They're not even close to being in the same league. The guitars to compare the Yamaha against would be other factory-made guitars with laminated B/S. Lower-end Cordobas, Alhambras, Esteves and Aparicios come to mind. Against those guitars, one will probably find the weights to be comparable. One will probably find the tone to be comparable as well. The Yamaha wins out on its $300 price (at least in the US).
I agree with Todd K and Arash. It is all about avoiding too many warranty issues. Building a light guitar in this price range is risky. Lighter guitars are generally more frail and prone to cracking.
I also agree that laminating the back and sides (in this case for financial reasons rather than tonal issues- eg Smallman classical guitars) probably increases the weight (and the sustain).
For what it's worth, apart from having reasonably good sound and action, the Yamaha is like a tank. I've banged it on the walls, dropped it, left it in a hot car for far longer than I intended to, and it still looks brand new. When I get a better guitar, I'll definitely keep this one for playing outside, etc.
For what it's worth, apart from having reasonably good sound and action, the Yamaha is like a tank. I've banged it on the walls, dropped it, left it in a hot car for far longer than I intended to, and it still looks brand new. When I get a better guitar, I'll definitely keep this one for playing outside, etc.
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