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Flamenco "pieces"
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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Flamenco "pieces"
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I know we guitarists are always reminded that flamenco is improvisatory and all about the cante and all that, but as a guy who plays guitar, having set pieces is very important, not to mention satisfying. I was happy to see that Ricardo was down with Esteban de Sanlucar, as he has written a bunch of these things--they are very flamenco-sounding yet melodic and self-contained. I learned Panaderos Flamencos, which is very hard to play, and am right now working on Primavera Andaluz. Both are a treat for the listener (or watcher) and flashy. I guess some of the Sabicas works are similiar in that they are self-contained compositions, but I wonder if anyone knows someone similiar to Sanlucar, who has written a bunch of these gems.
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Date Nov. 8 2006 23:52:58
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Ricardo
Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Flamenco "pieces" (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Well nothing wrong with it, but it is a more advanced thing that is all. Flamenco does not have to be a complete arranged solo, but it CAN be, and is by the maestros often. The point of reiterrating it is for folks learning and getting "stuck" on a piece. Once the student gets the concept of falsetas and improvisation, accomp, etc, nothing wrong with memorizing "Impetu" by Escudero. Or "La Barrosa", or whatever. But if your perfermance tempo is half what it is supposed to be.... Point being if you can perform pro and play in rhythm, do whatever the hell you want. But if you are learning how to play bulerias, don't learn an entire piece, learn strumming patterns and easy falsetas first. Unlike Bach, you are allowed to skip hard sections, or save them until your technique develops. E. Sanlucar is good because they are short, but there are classics by Ramon Montoya, Sabicas , Escudero etc. Nothing easy though, sorry. How about Juan Serrano's book? Ricardo
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Date Nov. 9 2006 7:31:00
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Flamenco "pieces" (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Hmm, that's funny that everyone is saying Juan Serrano is easy. Half of his falsetas are mostly fast picado, which neither I nor many people on this board have mastered. I guess my original question was not very well articulated. Looking back at Sanlucar's pieces, they are put together to be satisfying solo compositions. They don't seem to be "merely" strings of falsetas, and some of them are very accessible to even non-flamenco listeners. Such things are very valuable to the guitarist. I actually do like Serrano's rumba "Las Olas", as a solo. It's quite simple but effective. You would have to take out the bass line that sounds exactly like "Entre Dos Aguas", though. Was it copying or an homage? Olas and Aguas? HMM.... Incidentally, I used to play in a duo and the guy wrote a rumba, which he called "Rumba Flamenco." Then a few years later I get this Juan Serrano album and this exact same song was on it. Homage, plagiarism, or coincidence? Hmmmm.
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Date Nov. 9 2006 18:12:23
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Ricardo
Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Flamenco "pieces" (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
Then a few years later I get this Juan Serrano album and this exact same song was on it. Homage, plagiarism, or coincidence? Hmmmm. Hmm, I wrote this song "bulerias" and then I saw this guy "chicuelo" something, using my same guitar, gotee, and playing the same style song! What is going on here miguel??? Trad flamenco is supposed to be like that. It may very well occur that two unrelated players come up with a very similar sounding falseta, or arrangement, if they have the same influences. More than a coincidence, but not plagiarism. I said this stuff was NOT easy. I don't think Juan is that fast, but that does not mean all he plays is easy. His old records are sped up obviously, and the newer stuff "Sabor Flamenco" is pretty medium speed. His Panaderos is pretty slow compared to the original. Just recommending his book because from what I remembered seeing in it, was stuff up your ally.
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Date Nov. 9 2006 20:39:24
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Flamenco "pieces" (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Dude, if you put out a bulerias that had all of the same falsetas as a bulerias on Chicuelo's album, wouldnt' that be a little fishy? Actually, I think my friend must have heard it and internalized it, then "wrote" it again. Heck, as you alluded, I doubt Serrano wrote most of those falsetas. But they were in the same order :). A bunch of familiar sounding falsetas following the bass line from "Entre Dos Aguas" :) Listening to Juan Serrano as an old man, I would presume he was pretty fast in his day. But a very good player I know who used to tour with Chusacales and Pedro Cortes (he claims he was better than both of them :)), said that Juan Serrano's biggest weakness was his picado. Go figure...
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 9 2006 21:11:35
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