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fix for cloudy/milky/blooming/blushing French polish
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jamesmulholland
Posts: 10
Joined: Feb. 24 2020
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fix for cloudy/milky/blooming/blushi...
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Hi folks, A first-time poster, after years of enjoying the wealth of information and banter from you lot - many thanks. But enough gushing! I would like to know if anyone has a fix for a "cloudy" finish to French polish? Without sanding back and repolishing? Apologies, I'm sure this question has been asked, but after a fair bit of research, nothing quite seems to respond. I may be using the wrong terms (cloudy, milky, blooming, blushing...?), which is surely not helping. I thought I was ready to stick the golpeador on guitar number 2, having left several weeks and followed up with Super Nikco, only to find that wicked murkiness lurking beneath. I gather it may be because my bodying and final sessions were done in different locations, therefore different humidity levels. Also due to alcohol being more than a year old, and therefore having absorbed water. Also changing pads a couple of times. Does that sound about right? Now, I have been told by a couple of luthiers here in Paris, "It's your second guitar, just whack on the golpeador and play." But it's just a bit too visible for me. And installing the golpeador feels a little too close to permanent. A bit difficult to capture in photos. But I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. I'd appreciate any feedback from you wise bunch. Be gentle, please!
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Date Feb. 24 2020 18:23:31
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jamesmulholland
Posts: 10
Joined: Feb. 24 2020
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RE: fix for cloudy/milky/blooming/bl... (in reply to jamesmulholland)
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Well, thank you kindly! I made it with a teacher in Spain, so definitely a guiding hand or two that helped with the final result (except the FP -- I had to return to Paris!). Thanks also for the quick responses. I should have detailed some of my process to begin with. I used walnut oil (100%, organic) in the bodying, and a slight amount in the final polishing. Initially I was spiriting off after each session, but I pushed the pad quite hard and finished each session with basically just alcohol, which gave it a very nice and dry finish. As a result, I now realise my potential error: I probably let the spiriting off at the end of each session slide. However, I did begin each day with just alcohol to reactivate the FP, even though the surface felt quite oil-free. Does that count as spiriting off? I wonder if doing a load of spiriting off sessions might chase out the murkiness? In terms of sanding, I levelled with 600/800 grit after bodying, then did a very light, probably too light, wet sand through 2000, 2500, 3000 grits. I then left it for four weeks while on a trip back home, and hit it with Super Nikco today on my return. I don't have aspirations of selling this baby (the main reason the golpeador/strings aren't on already is because I just revamped and converted my number 1's bridge to a 12 hole to fix a woeful break angle -- which, along with the lowered action, has given a rather classical sounding negra a new flamenco voice). But my aim is to sell guitars, as alas, my playing leads more often to frustration than pleasure. So I need to learn how to FP like a pro! Cheers all
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Date Feb. 24 2020 23:17:58
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RobF
Posts: 1616
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: fix for cloudy/milky/blooming/bl... (in reply to jamesmulholland)
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quote:
I gather it may be because my bodying and final sessions were done in different locations, therefore different humidity levels. Also due to alcohol being more than a year old, and therefore having absorbed water. Also changing pads a couple of times. Does that sound about right?.... I used walnut oil (100%, organic) in the bodying, and a slight amount in the final polishing. I think, if you were able to dissolve the shellac flakes without issue and had a nice clear liquid to work with, then your alcohol was probably OK. I also doubt that changing pads would be an issue (especially if the first pad was getting dirty or sticky). I’m more inclined to think the walnut oil is the culprit, as it’s a drying oil. It might even be why you had to change fads. Perhaps try some fairly aggressive spiriting sessions, followed by some polishing sessions using a non-drying oil such as a light olive oil. It might get you close enough to where you want to be to be happy enough to stick a golpeador on and start evaluating the guitar. If, in time, you decide you really can’t live with it, you can always pull the golpeador and repolish the guitar at a later date. Maybe don’t use walnut oil on the next guitar? I know it gets suggested now and again, but it’s not really traditional. Oh, and ditto on congrats on your second guitar. It looks nice.
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Date Feb. 24 2020 23:43:45
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jamesmulholland
Posts: 10
Joined: Feb. 24 2020
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RE: fix for cloudy/milky/blooming/bl... (in reply to jamesmulholland)
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Thanks again for all the feedback. Well, I arrived at a solution, but it's surely not the best/safest one. I Super Nikcod the living bejeezuz out of it. As counterintuitive as going hammer and tongs with an ultra-fine polishing compound may seem... But after a few days, it got me there. I tried a couple of ways to begin with: keeping it soft until the Nikco disappeared, repeating several times; starting firm and getting softer. But what seemed to work best was starting soft and buffing non-stop, easing the pressure slightly when I hit the sticky phase, and then the Nikco suddenly seemed to "melt" and felt like rubbing cream. Then a very short burst pushing really hard. I learned to stop soon after this point, as insisting with pressure in this phase seemed to reveal more blooming than before (??). I used a rubber (an actual rubber, not muñeca-style) inside a cloth and used spot where the Nikco glazed and accumulated on the surface. Seemed to work much better than a clean surface. I'm really not quite sure how it worked, if the pressure and heat generated meant I was burning through the top layer of cloudy FP until I reached a cleaner second layer, or if maybe the heat was simply melting the top layer into the second. But very happy with the way it turned out, the golpeador is now on and she sounds great (far better than my playing deserves!). Now to find out how to avoid the same mess with the next guitar... With the pressure I've been putting into the soundboard, I have an aching jaw - not just from the physical effort, but also the permanent half-scream I've been wearing for days, afraid of the dreaded slip and nail gouge (I only did it twice...thankfully?). If this kind of last-ditch fix sounds familiar to anyone, any ideas as to how you avoided reproducing the same dodgy finish afterwards?
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Date Mar. 1 2020 17:31:50
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