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COMPOSITION
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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 RE: COMPOSITION (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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J,
they're not usually "songs". Most flamenco (guitar) pieces are evocations of a juerga, a party where people can take their turns playing falsetas or dancing or singing. That's why the sequence is often falseta, compas, falseta, compas, etc. This is one way to do it. Of course if you are making a piece, you will probably want to "say something." A logical sequence could be a quiet intro type falseta, compas/falsetas, building to the most dramatic falseta, some crazy compas, and then end with a big remate.
If a piece is based on a dance, like Alegrias, there is a typical form, although I'm not the best to talk about this since I don't really play for dancers.
There are a couple real songs, such as Columbianas or Peterneras.
My suggestion is imitation, imitation. That's the best way to learn. If you don't, what will come out will almost certainly have more to do with your prior background than flamenco. (see Ottmar Liebert)
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Date Jan. 18 2006 16:52:53
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JBASHORUN
Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
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RE: COMPOSITION (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
My suggestion is imitation, imitation. That's the best way to learn. If you don't, what will come out will almost certainly have more to do with your prior background than flamenco. (see Ottmar Liebert)
Miguel, thanks for the advice... its appreciated. I might give some of the things you mentioned a try. Although "immitation"... I had the same idea.... "copy Paco!" I thought, and that is also what my teacher tells me to do.
But I found that even immitation isn't easy. I recently got the tab for "Guajiras De Lucia" and Sanlucar's "Andares Gaditanos", and to be honest, I didn't make it past the first few bars!!! So I figured perhaps it would be easier to INNOVATE rather than immitate, that way I can choose the complexity of the piece, and also play it with a passion.
But you have a point, everyone says that "immitation is one of the best ways to learn something". well, I guess its back to Immitating the Graf Martinez DVD for the moment...
Cheers,
James
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Date Jan. 18 2006 17:59:46
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: COMPOSITION (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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James,
take the Paco piece. Copy its structure by seperating out "riffs" or compases that are rhythmic in nature, and falsetas. Take those riffs and see if you can get down to the very essence of them by removing all the ornamentation and elaboration. For example, he may be playing 6 note arpeggios for a beat, well take that down to six or four or three. Or two. You'll find that what you have is still music and you may even like it better that way. It'll certainly sound better if you play what you can understand and technically accomplish rather than trying to copy a highly developed master when you aren't ready yet.
Where he has these huge picado runs, make up your own run in eigth notes or triplets. Find the first note he starts on and find the note he ends on. What comes inbetween will be your responsibility to adapt.
If there are repeating melodies, try to come up with our own melody and play it there instead.
Listen to his falsetas and try to reduce them to what you can easily play. I'm not saying this is easy, but it is a way you can teach yourself. Change the falsetas around..a note here a note there--voila! It's your falseta now.
This is a way to really get inside of a piece. By simplifying it, you now have added something to your own repertoire, it has gone from imagination to reality. As you develop and learn you can elaborate your own interpretation to that it fits your particular aesthetic, or you can get closer and closer to Paco if that's your wish.
Start with the rhythmic units, the accents, and don't mess with those. Try to keep the basic chords the same, but you can ignore a lot of complex ventures up the neck.
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Date Jan. 18 2006 18:44:28
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gshaviv
Posts: 272
Joined: Mar. 22 2005
From: Israel
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RE: COMPOSITION (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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quote:
I recently got the tab for...
My suggestion, throw all your tabs. Go by ear, play it slowly and try to play with it, if its not exact, but still has the same harmony and compas, hey you created something. Going by ear is difficult at first, especially if your are used to only reading tab, so don't do difficult stuff, try repeating simple stuff.
Tab can be like crutches sometimes, its an easy/fast way to learn, but my experience is that you don't fully comprehend the music this way. When you try to reconstruct by ear you have to rely on your music instincts, I found I understand better what I play when I learn by ear and can more freely make variations on it.
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Date Jan. 18 2006 18:47:53
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ToddK
Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
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RE: COMPOSITION (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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writing is all about borrowing/stealing from what you've learned.
If you dont know a bunch of flamenco, and/or a whole buttload of
falsettas, you're not gonna write anything good.
To write one falsetta, you'd want to first learn 50.
And NO, not from Guajira de Lucia. And NOT from Jucal.
Try early to late Sabicas, search out the easier ones.
Learn some stuff from Herrero and Martin. Its all good.
You have to be more expeditious, and search for material.
There's tons of stuff out there. Do a search on this site, and
you'll find plenty.
Writing music is like speaking a language. To speak, you need a vocabulary.
To develop a flamenco/music vocabulary, you must take in as much
material as you can. Im not saying learn a million falsettas in one week.
Im saying learn one, every few days.
Eventually, you get bored with the ones you learned 6 months ago, and
so you start to variate them, and they morph into your own.
TK
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Date Jan. 18 2006 18:56:31
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JBASHORUN
Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
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RE: COMPOSITION (in reply to ToddK)
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quote:
Writing music is like speaking a language. To speak, you need a vocabulary.
To develop a flamenco/music vocabulary, you must take in as much
material as you can.
Hmmm... yes, I see what you mean. Its a bit like asking a child who knows very few English words to write novel! Although maybe something on a smaller scale wouldn't be impossible... perhaps just one melody or verse might be more manageable.
Obviously I've heard of Sabicas... I think I've got one or two of his songs, but maybe his DVD would be a worthy investment.
Miguel, thanks a lot- I'll give it a try and see what happens!
Guy, the problem with learning by ear is that there are often several ways to play something, and its sometimes hard to tell which way is best, or rather which is the "intended" way. For example, I have a couple of different versions of Paco's "Rio Ancho" tab, and the main theme is fingered differently in each. But then again, I suppose it might not matter how you play it as long as it works for you.
Thanks,
James
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Date Jan. 18 2006 19:18:23
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sorin popovici
Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 7 2005
From: Iasi, Romania
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RE: COMPOSITION (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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ear master pro is super cool ...i discovered this a year ago or so ago...i'm good at intervals
when they arpegiate it ...but it's so easy to cheat ...I mean man they have lesson like
perect 4th,trison and 5th .. a five i can recognize when they spell it for me ta -daaam,
but even if u dont recognize ...u'll know a trison because it sounds super bad.
Major and minor second ...easy , try to sing do re ...if u can ..it's obvious that it's major 2nd,
not to mention that a minor second sounds like buhu hu hu.
I'll look to fretboard warrior too , i wanted smth a little guitar related also.
I have one falseta .. and some ugly remates, that's how far I am into composing 
Todd said it best ...if u know 3 words ...u cant write poetry.I also have problems
cause I dont know harmony , and what to put on top of the harmony. To compose smth good ...u got to know stuff like Todd shows us in that melodic minor lesson.
Dont be discouraged but Henrik can play some Paco ...and also lots of stuff, and
he only showed us so far ...one modern flamenco falseta that he composed and he likes
,now...he also has a music school and knows things about harmony , modes ,ear training
,reading staffs well....gee,hey ..I just realized ,it's not fair....henrik you are killing my self
esteem.
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Date Jan. 20 2006 20:41:59
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