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La Busqueda Documentary
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: La Busqueda Documentary (in reply to Paul Magnussen)
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quote:
So Ramón wasn’t the greatest guitarist of the last 50 years simply because he didn't work as hard as Paco. Right.
No, I'm sure that Ramon worked as hard as Paco. But art and music evolve, and flamenco had not evolved in Ramon's time to the extent that it had by Paco's time. Paco did not create his style and work out of thin air, using the musical equivalent of "thought experiments," as Einstein, for example, did in developing his theories. Paco built his ouvre over time on the precedents set by his predecessors, Ramon, Nino Ricardo, and Sabicas.
What Paco did was extend the possibilities of flamenco. No question. And he set precedents himself. But was Paco any more a genius in his time and place (and I emphasize "genius" because that's what this thread is addressing) than Ramon or Sabicas were in their times and places? I know there will be different thoughts on this, but I think it is a question worthy of debate.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Jun. 18 2015 0:31:55
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Ricardo
Posts: 14824
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: La Busqueda Documentary (in reply to BarkellWH)
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quote:
No, I'm sure that Ramon worked as hard as Paco. But art and music evolve, and flamenco had not evolved in Ramon's time to the extent that it had by Paco's time. Paco did not create his style and work out of thin air, using the musical equivalent of "thought experiments," as Einstein, for example, did in developing his theories. Paco built his ouvre over time on the precedents set by his predecessors, Ramon, Nino Ricardo, and Sabicas.
Actually, in the way Einstein followed logic from learning about Maxwell equations and others, yes Paco had the same type of genius creative moments in his early career that carried forward from what he had learned till then. Ramon taught paco what he had learned from nino ricardo...then Paco took off doing his own things and inspired generations afterward. In the case of both einstein and paco...sure someone else probably would have come along and made the same "discoveries" but as it turned out it fell on their shoulders being in the right place at the right time. In the same way some folks don't "get" Einstein or want to find an alternative to his theories, many people don't "get" paco's music since it evolved and found new directions. But you can't take away the "genius" of either one.
Ricardo
_____________________________
CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Jun. 18 2015 19:38:32
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: La Busqueda Documentary (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
Bill,
are you comparing Ramon Montoya and Paco de Lucia (two great flamenco figures) or Ramon de Algeciras and Paco de Lucia (brothers, one an average pro and one a great flamenco figure)? Thinking there might be some miscommunication going on here.
Miguel,
Thanks for noting that. I definitely was comparing Ramon Montoya and the state of flamenco during his era with Paco de Lucia and the state of flamenco during his era. That's what I meant when I stated that flamenco had not evolved in Ramon's era to the extent it had evolved in Paco's era. I was trying to make the point that Paco had a much greater base to build upon and to extend flamenco and set precedents, a base that was unavailable during Ramon's era. Thus, my rhetorical question: Can we really say that Paco was a "genius" and Ramon was not? I think it is a question worthy of debate.
Thanks for bringing this up, Miguel. We may have been talking past each other here, at least where my post is concerned. Sorry if I have confused the issue.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 18 2015 23:52:02
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