How To Play To Palmas Track

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Kalo

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011

How To Play To Palmas Track

Hi All,

I am currently learning Solea Por Buleria Compas...

I've got the compas down, and know how to count it per phrase, as well as know the where the accents marks are.

The problem I am having is I CAN play the palo to my compas flamenco clock because I see the NUMBERS as the clock is working.

I was going to download a cool palmas track and realized that without seeing the numbers I don't know where to come in..

I played rock and I know how to keep good rhythmn, but, Flamenco is dfferent. It's not like rock in the sense where just sit in and play to the rhtyhm.

The wierd thing is on the palmas track I can kind of here the accents, but, it's not like my compas clock..

Any advise for playing with palmas would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2012 22:15:31

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

Actually it is like rock, or any other genre of music, in the sense that you have to know where the one is.

There's a pattern to the palmas, sit with your clock and clap with it until you don't need to look at the numbers. After you do that you're ready to start with the guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2012 23:41:07

Ricardo

Posts: 14861
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

quote:

I played rock and I know how to keep good rhythmn, but, Flamenco is dfferent. It's not like rock in the sense where just sit in and play to the rhtyhm.

As already stated, it is EXACTLY like that. What Rock are you playing? Not unlike playing up tempo against the snare on 2 and 4 or more complex grooves, you often have palmas not giving you the strong beats so clear. Cajon is a bit easier as you are given the equivalent of the kick drum and hi hat to play to. Palmas are not always so simple to play against, but think of em as a funky snare.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2012 1:45:59

Kalo

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

Thanks Ricardo & Chester!

Okay, so, when playing Solea Por Buleria and using a compas track for solea por buleria, should I be looking for the accents on the compas track?

I think what throws me off is I am trying to match my accents with the compas track and kind of feel like i am not matching where the accents on the compas are falling...

I hope that made sense.

At least with Jason's Dr. Compas, I was looking at the numbers and after a while got used to the compas rhythm.

Same with my flamenco metronome...

Thanks again..

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2012 2:12:03

Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

have you tried foot tapping ? not on every accent but perhaps on some accents ?
I think that might help you somehow

_____________________________

http://www.youtube.com/user/GuitarristaAD

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2012 3:53:36

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

quote:

The problem I am having is I CAN play the palo to my compas flamenco clock because I see the NUMBERS as the clock is working.

Could you play several cycle without looking at the screen? I mean you should be able to localize where you are in the compas just by ears, not with eyes help.
So while practice with your clock, play several cycle without looking at the screen, just have a quick look from time to time to check if you're in.
Once you do not need anymore to look at the numbers, then it would be easier to play against the loop track.

Chester's advice is important. Clapping practice will allow you to feel the compas more quickly.

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2012 7:28:51

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

I understand that you are completely lost in the compas, you don't know where the first beat is. You have a couple of options, one is to upload you track here so someone can tell you an explain why. The other is that you try starting on every beat until you find one of a set of 12 that sounds the best; but even then you will not be certain. It might be worth uploading it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2012 8:00:29

Munin

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

Don't sweat it, it comes with time. I personally wouldn't bother with stuff like consciously trying to figure out where the one is etc. Just listen to lots of flamenco. That's the most important thing, really. Listen to LOTS of music, try to tap the rhythms while you do, etc. After a while, it becomes natural.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2012 11:19:20

Ricardo

Posts: 14861
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

quote:

At least with Jason's Dr. Compas, I was looking at the numbers and after a while got used to the compas rhythm.

Same with my flamenco metronome...

And so goes the problem with potty training Metronomes.

You need to ground yourself with no numbers until it feels the same easy as Rock music. Do you need to see numbers to know where 2 or 3 is???

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2012 12:08:04

mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

Me too faced this kind of issue. Imo it's a common one unless you're a genius or an advanced player in another style with already high understanding skills in rythm.

Visuals metronome are really useful tools. Like the training wheels while learning to ride a bike. But the purpose of these tools is to take them off.
If a kid always ride his bike with these learning wheels, it will take more time for him to feel confident...

It takes me age to be able to play properly against a loop. But little to little it comes naturally. Just force you to not ALWAYS look at the screen. Avoid it as more as you could.

_____________________________

"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2012 13:42:16

Kalo

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

quote:

have you tried foot tapping ? not on every accent but perhaps on some accents ? I think that might help you somehow

Hi Elie,

Well, I haven't tapped my foot, but, I know how to clap the compas for sure!!! Maybe I'll try tapping the foot..Oh, and I joined Jose's sight and it is AWESOME!!!

quote:

Could you play several cycle without looking at the screen? I mean you should be able to localize where you are in the compas just by ears, not with eyes help.

Hi Mezzo,

YES, I can clap the cycle on my Flamenco Compas clock! I don't have to look at it anymore...My problem is when I download a compas track...It's totally different from what I am used to hearing...Like sometimes I can hear the 12, with a heavy accent and the 3 has a lighter sound. On my Compas Clock the accent beats are all the same sound even though the Flamenco Compas plays a little it fancier rhythms.

quote:

I understand that you are completely lost in the compas, you don't know where the first beat is. You have a couple of options, one is to upload you track here so someone can tell you an explain why. The other is that you try starting on every beat until you find one of a set of 12 that sounds the best; but even then you will not be certain. It might be worth uploading it.

EXACTLY, rogeliocan...Lost in compas, LOL!!!! Okay, I will download it for you all to hear...

quote:

Don't sweat it, it comes with time. I personally wouldn't bother with stuff like consciously trying to figure out where the one is etc. Just listen to lots of flamenco. That's the most important thing, really. Listen to LOTS of music, try to tap the rhythms while you do, etc. After a while, it becomes natural.

Hi Munin,

Thanks, and I am hoping all this will improve in time...

quote:

And so goes the problem with potty training Metronomes. You need to ground yourself with no numbers until it feels the same easy as Rock music. Do you need to see numbers to know where 2 or 3 is???

LOL, yeah, Ricardo, using the compas clock is like a potty training!!!! As stated with the compas clock I don't need to look at it anymore while playing...I am having more problems with compas tracks that I haven't heard....And don't all have the same accent sounds like my familiar compas clock does...

quote:

Me too faced this kind of issue. Imo it's a common one unless you're a genius or an advanced player in another style with already high understanding skills in rythm.

Visuals metronome are really useful tools. Like the training wheels while learning to ride a bike. But the purpose of these tools is to take them off.
If a kid always ride his bike with these learning wheels, it will take more time for him to feel confident...

It takes me age to be able to play properly against a loop. But little to little it comes naturally. Just force you to not ALWAYS look at the screen. Avoid it as more as you could.

Thanks Mezzo,

I am happy to know that I am not the only one facing this problem. I'll take your advise along with all the great advise I've gotten so far and hopefully I'll gain more confidence...

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2012 15:59:49

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Munin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Munin
I personally wouldn't bother with stuff like consciously trying to figure out where the one is etc.

Yes, that's a great idea. Just don't think about anything. Let it go in one ear and come out the other.

Do you know how the standard Alegrias palmas sound? That's a good starting point. Another hint is to tap your foot and find the accent that's on the offbeat. That's the 3.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2012 20:38:24

Kalo

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

quote:

Do you know how the standard Alegrias palmas sound? That's a good starting point. Another hint is to tap your foot and find the accent that's on the offbeat. That's the 3.

Hi Chester,

I do not know Alegrias palmas sound....I am becoming more familiar with Buleria and Solea.

I know both are count 12's..

I am going to try what you are sugessting in tapping my foot to find the accent's on that offbeat...

Thanks,

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2012 0:12:50

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

http://josetanaka.com/lesson/palmas_bulerias.htm

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2012 8:18:53

Ricardo

Posts: 14861
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

quote:

I do not know Alegrias palmas sound....I am becoming more familiar with Buleria and Solea.

WHat the hell man????? You just said you have Dr. Compas?
Put it on "Alegrias"....
put your guitar DOWN,
turn improvise OFF,
turn metronome sound OFF,
turn cajon sound OFF,
turn palmas to maximun,
and increase master volume,
set tempo to 120 BPM or so,
play it listen watch numbers or whatever,
but LEARN TO CLAP THE EXACT SAME PATTERN.

AFter you get that, increase tempo to 170 bpm or so and see if you can still do it. If you CAN, do it with out looking at numbers. IF you can STILL do it, put on a recording of a modern Alegria (ie one that is not super flexable or elastic tempo), now do your pattern to make sure you understand how it fits to the music. THen find as many alegria or solea por buleria (same pattern) as you can and keep doing the palmas pattern over them until you GET IT.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2012 12:24:05

Kalo

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

quote:

WHat the hell man????? You just said you have Dr. Compas?

Hey Ricardo,

My apologies...The confusion when Jason had a FREE beta version I used it a couple of times...Still waiting for the PC version for Dr. Compas...

What I do have on my computer is a flamenco metronome software...

Still, I will follow your instruction to count to Alegrias and apply it to Solea Por Buleria...

Thanks,

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2012 16:00:18

Kalo

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

quote:

http://josetanaka.com/lesson/palmas_bulerias.htm

quote:

Chester thanks!

I just recently joined Jose's Site and that is where I learnt his Intermediate Solea Por Buleria...

Funny, I've been on Jose's website, but, must of over looked the link you just sent me...I am reading the link now.

Thanks

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2012 16:03:24

Kalo

Posts: 400
Joined: Jan. 25 2011

RE: How To Play To Palmas Track (in reply to Kalo)

Now that I just read Jose's Palmas link...

I think I know why I was getting confused...

I guess even though accents marks are key....I thought that EVER accent need to be heard via palmas....

Also I wasn't aware of contra variations...

Kalo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 24 2012 16:43:05