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How to sit while playing guitar...
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rombsix
Posts: 7846
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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How to sit while playing guitar...
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Hey mates, I used to play ping pong a long time ago, and I sort of strained my right lower back (because of all of those topspin shots that have a lot of hip rotation). So the pain has come back to me throughout and after this first year of medical school due to the long hours of sitting and studying. Now, when I play guitar, I don't feel very comfortable in that lower back area. I was just wondering: when you play, do you sit back and have your back flat against the back of the chair? Or do you have your back straight but not touching the back of the chair? I can only play with the cross-legged position (never was able to play well with the traditional position), and I've been playing for 6 years now. I used to have no problem sitting (but not having my back touch the back of the chair) with my back very straight (I have a sort of exaggerated posture where my back is so straight, that it sort of starts to go the wrong way i.e. I sort of have it angled backward, the opposite of slouching forward), but now, after this first year of medical school, my back hurts when I sit like this. So I've started trying to have my back against the back of the chair, but I feel that that restricts my motion when I play - I just can't move my arms/shoulders as well. What do you advise?
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Ramzi http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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Date Aug. 5 2007 13:58:00
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Ricardo
Posts: 14956
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: How to sit while playing guitar... (in reply to rombsix)
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My advice is to sit back, sit forward, cross right leg, feet flat-guitar up, guitar down cross the other leg, use footstool, take foot off footstool,etc etc, all in the course of a practice session or performance. In other words move around. Not matter what you might think is the "best" postion, sitting in ONLY one position for any length of time is not good. Keep the blood moving, move around a little bit, any time you tense up or feel something, switch your postition immedialtely. The problem is when you are tense and you are concentrated, you forget about your body, back, head, neck, etc. Make an effort to move a little to the music, tap your foot, tap your other foot, wiggle you toes, etc. Notice Vicente or Paco tilt the head way back looking up at the ceiling...it feels really good on your back and neck to do that. Ricardo
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Date Aug. 5 2007 20:21:51
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rombsix
Posts: 7846
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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RE: How to sit while playing guitar... (in reply to rombsix)
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So here I am, years later after this post, still having troubles with sitting positions. I've gone to using traditional position for now, but I have a question. When I sit traditional style, my right forearm (flexor compartment) comes in contact with the guitar's edge (where the top meets the sides), which is relatively sharp (not a knife, but still, a relatively thin edge). After playing for 5 or 10 minutes, I start getting numbness in my pinky side of the arm. The ulnar nerve passes below some of the flexor muscles in the forearm, and this is the nerve getting compressed by the edge of the guitar which sort of "cuts into" my forearm, hitting the nerve along its course. I have to keep my forearm on the guitar to support it and stop it from tipping over. I've tried having my forearm be free and NOT touch the edge, and have the biceps ("anatomical arm") be the point of contact with the guitar that keeps it upright. I need to experiment with that still. I've had troubles with this nerve being a bit compressed and causing the same symptoms due to using the computer mouse a lot. I've remedied that now by using my LEFT hand instead for the mouse-work, and using support under the left arm to avoid the problem arising in my left arm now. I'm looking at videos of Paco Pena and Rafael Cortes (both use traditional sitting position). I can't seem to tell if their forearm actually comes in contact with the edge of the guitar or not - maybe Rafael Cortes' forearm does (but he's got the anatomy of a bear!) but Paco Pena's doesn't. My only workable solution for now is to try to AVOID contact between my forearm and the guitar's edge, and see how that goes. Any advice on the matter?
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Ramzi http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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Date Jul. 17 2011 9:09:40
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Ricardo
Posts: 14956
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: How to sit while playing guitar... (in reply to rombsix)
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About compressing your nerve, damn, you are pressing way to hard if you go numb. Why can't you just do what I said in the post years ago....MOVE AROUND. That goes for not just legs feet neck and head, but arms too!!! What happens is as we come to a difficult passage, we instinctively tense up and stiffen up, stop breathing, squeeze too hard, press too hard, etc etc, all to focus on that one little sequence of notes to hold it all together so the music does not fall apart. But it is not really necessary if you simply relax and move around more. One of my favorite PDL quotes "If you think you are going to make a mistake, you are lost...". So get the playing level to the point were it is fun and relaxing and there will be no numbness. Ricardo
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CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Jul. 17 2011 16:39:13
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: How to sit while playing guitar... (in reply to rombsix)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rombsix Any advice on the matter? Read this: http://www.egta.co.uk/content/restandfree#IIa Actually for most efficient ( = at reduction of unnecessarily engaged muscle groups / least neuronal activity ) you need the lower arm to be rested ( in a certain way ). The sharp edges of guitar corpuses are really a point. I am tyring since years to catch the attention of luthiers who still shape their edges like of a rough banana box. Ergonomically ideal would be bevels like those of Grit Laskin, but at least some decent rounding should be a matter of common routine. Some luthiers prove some curious splits, by showing ability of fine sense in how to build conclusively, yet missing the aesthetics of proprtional edge rounding, let alone said ergonomic demands. They don´t figure just the ennobling effect of proportionally rounded edges ( as it occures whith about any [ practical] object, not just instruments.) But some minutes of cutting edges go a long way. When physically well trained with firm flesh / well toned muscles, one can play for many hours without consciously realizing the irk. However, unconscious omitting will still be going on in order to lessen the squeeze of vessels and tendons. Thus, engagement of many muscle groups of arm, shoulder (!) and back under tension which will restrict the physiological and nervous capacity available for the actual playing execution. The fact that professional players show how they will cope still, doesn´t inevitably mean that there ain´t economical / ergonomical postures to adapt to. What helps with the classical position is to pull back the right foot ( under or beside of the chair ), as shown here: ( Taken from Bellucci´s site.) It helps balancing the pelvis. What sitting is concerned, there exists one way of positioning the spine, so that it will bear on its own / without extra muscle activity to keep straight. Sit on the first 1/3 of the chair with your feet parallel and the knees at 90°. ( If there are only either higher or lower chairs available than your lower leg determines, prefer the higher one.) Then slouch to max first, and vice versa, push the lower back through to max. Repeat a couple of times, before you find the feeling for where the exact middle between the two extremes is. The exact middle is where the spine rests idle. When found you will feel the relief, with no muscular support needed then. It will take you some time to make it habitual, but the benefit might convince you to keep at it. Ruphus
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Date Jul. 17 2011 17:20:07
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rombsix
Posts: 7846
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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RE: How to sit while playing guitar... (in reply to Ruphus)
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Thanks everyone. Janne: thanks for the input. I'll try changing points of contact between my forearm and the guitar's edge. Ricardo: thanks for the input. I prefer to stick to just ONE sitting position, rather than use tons to relieve pressure. I find using just one will allow me to finally get used to the position I choose. However, if doing so is going to result in numbness / discomfort, then I'll just have to use several positions one after the other to avoid over-stressing a single part of my body. About pressing too hard - I don't know; that's possible. I mean, I actually see a line of compression in the skin (like when you've slept in one position for some time, and wake up to find your skin "creased") after playing for 5 or 10 minutes. I might be pressing too hard, but that happens even with the easiest/most relaxed playing. It's possible also that I have quite skinny extremities, and thus no fat to cushion the nerve at all. I actually have problems with nerve compression over bony prominences in other parts of my body (nothing related to guitar in any way), so that may indeed be a problem with my body type / build / composition. Ruphus: thanks for the input. I agree totally about "rounding the edges" on guitars. I actually tried to wear one of those wrist towels (with rubber - the ones tennis players use) around the point of my forearm where the edge comes in contact. This was supposed to act as a cushion. I felt it helped, but seeing as the thing was a WRIST towel, it was too tight on my forearm. I'm going to get an elbow-support soon though, and see if that acts as a synthetic fat-pad or cushion over the point of contact between forearm and guitar edge. If that works, eureka! I also tried putting a piece of cloth over the guitar's edge to make it more rounded, and that helped delay the occurrence of the numbness too. Therefore, I might want to put on a sleeve or use a piece of fabric (like some classical guitarists do to allow easier gliding of the forearm over the edge of the guitar) when playing for a while, and see if that helps. Cheers!
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Ramzi http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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Date Jul. 17 2011 18:37:43
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