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Losing tune - whats normal?   You are logged in as Guest
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britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

Losing tune - whats normal? 
I keep my guitars in a small room with a humidifier that maintains around 40-45% relative humidity. Every time I take out a guitar to play it, I find the tuning has dropped about 20 points on my Sabine tuner. Not sure what that equates to, but I'm guessing it has to be about one quarter tone??? Its usually more in the trebles than the basses, but all the strings seem to lose tune over the space of a day or so.

Other people tell me their guitars rarely lose tune once the strings have stabilized. I'm beginning to wonder; am I doing something wrong here? What would cause stabilized strings to consistently lose tune to this extent over a 24/48-hour period?

Appreciate any comments. . .

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2012 21:26:01
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 
how old are the strings and waht brand? Its normally that the strings loose pitch the first 5 - 7 days.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2012 7:47:15
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

I find the tuning has dropped about 20 points on my Sabine tuner


When you play you warm the guitar with your body. When you put it back in the case it cools down. This is bound to affect the tuning.
I have noticed, however, that some guitars are affected more then others in this way. Not sure why.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2012 8:14:41
 
n85ae

 

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006
 

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 
My guitar strings all drop there tuning a bit each day for a week or so after new
strings, and some brands of strings are worse than other for this. What I hate
worse is in the winter when the furnace runs, my guitar tuning changes as
the heat changes really frustrating.

I'd say, just get used to it since you cannot fix it.

Jeff
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2012 13:07:10
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

how old are the strings and waht brand?


I use several brands on different guitars: D'Addario composites HT; Savarez red card; Hannabach 827 and Goldin, Luthier 35. They all seem to be losing tune after even a month or more of regular use?

Could the tuning machines be slipping? The guitars are stored on stands, not in cases. I have two steel-string guitars stored in the same room and they seem unaffected?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2012 13:16:12
 
Argaith

Posts: 481
Joined: May 6 2009
From: Iran (living in London)

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 
quote:

The guitars are stored on stands, not in cases.




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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2012 13:49:24
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 
Firstly make sure you tie knots of some sort, don't just wind em cuz they are slippery little guys and pull loose over time. Second, strings settle, then want to stretch to their settled state.....so if you tune the 6th down to D for example to play a certain piece, well, it won't keep stretching down over time, it will stretch UP trying to get back to E.

So by this logic, when I need to speed stretch my strings for a gig, I tune the whole guitar a half step sharp and play on it that way for a while before leaving it. The strings stretch down, hopefully not lower then the pitch I want them to be at.

If you leave the guitar out of the case, or don't check it's tune every couple hours, they will keep trying to equalize. Temperature affects the plastic trebs dramatically. YOu are in candada so do this experiment.

Take your guitar tuned up, and play it a bit. Now walk out side your warm house in the cold. Now play it and notice the trebs drop considerably and are badly out of tune. NOw, go back inside your house....give it a minute, then play it again and notice it is back to or pretty close to back in tune like when you left.

That is extreme example, (and not good for guitar wood either) but you need to know that any little change will affect the strings. You simply have to stay on top of tuning them several times a day. That's all there is to it really.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2012 16:28:55
 
estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 
Nylon strings go sharp when they are heated by ambient air temperature.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2012 18:37:22
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 
Thats why it sucks playing outside in the sun. This time of year we sometimes have wonderfull days with a low but warm sun. Then I go out and play my beater guitar in the sun, but its annoying that you have to tune the guitar all the time.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2012 18:45:01
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

YOu are in candada so do this experiment.

Take your guitar tuned up, and play it a bit. Now walk out side your warm house in the cold. Now play it and notice the trebs drop considerably and are badly out of tune.


I'm sure you're absolutely correct. I've had a few occasions when I've played in clubs during the bitter Montreal winters (@#$%ing cold up there. . .), and the strings simply would not stay in tune ; but I'd never ever dream of punishing my precious guitars - or my decrepit old body - by trying to play outside in the freezing cold Canadian winter. BRRRGH. Only time I ever go out then is to shovel the snow.

(Imagine trying to play flamenco wearing a thick goose-down parka and heavy fur-lined gloves on? Might improve my playing though, who knows. . . ?)



Lots of good points in your detailed response. Thanks. . .

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2012 20:39:40
 
Shawn Brock

 

Posts: 271
Joined: Sep. 19 2011
From: Louisville KY

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 
When I made the journey into classical from steel string guitars I noticed that it was more of a devil to keep nylons in tune.

One day I noticed a classical guitarist who took his guitar out of the case and he just kept running his palms up and down the length of the strings. When I asked as to the reason he gave a long response which amounted to, " this makes my tuning more stable." I have tried that a few times and can see the benefit in doing it.

A lot of times I walk by my music room and I just pop in there and play each guitar for a minute and tune them. Well, the ones which I plan to be playing most anyhow. That seems to keep the guitars more happy with tuning.

I also believe that the voice of a guitar is affected when it is aloud to be played out of tune. I have noticed that during the stretching faze of new strings that I would tend to pull the pitch up a little without checking it against a tuner or fork. After a while I would be playing on a guitar which was tuned around A 435 or so. Then when I pull it back up to 440 its like a lot of presents has been lost, and it won't sound right for a few hours. Maybe I'm nuts or something, but that's the way I hear it...

Another thing I'm always mindful of is how many raps I have at the bridge and headstock. Everyone needs to do what works for them, but I'll never understand why people feel the need to use the complete string length! When you have 4 times around at the bridge and 8 coils on the peg, a string is just going to keep going flat! The coils and windings at the bridge and pegs/ tuners are going to keep tightening up and the string will just keep going flat. Trim the suckers I say!

I knew a guy who always had 6 raps on his trebles at the bridge, 3 on the D, 2 on the A and 1 on the E, and something that resembled a rats nest at the headstock. I bought a used guitar from him and just ended up lowering the tension on each string and cutting them off. He had so many twists and turns that it would have taken an act of congress to unwind those strings... I still get mad when I think of him and those strings...

Aw yes, another pointless and rambling post by me...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2012 21:53:34
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 


I´m unsure what hurts more in my eyes... the blue chair or the white tap plate!!! XD Great photo Anders! hehe ;P

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2012 23:35:55
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14845
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to Shawn Brock) 
quote:

Then when I pull it back up to 440 its like a lot of presents has been lost, and it won't sound right for a few hours. Maybe I'm nuts or something, but that's the way I hear it..


Not nuts. as the strings change, they no longer reinforce each other with upper harmonics and sound really bad. Once they settle, they reinforce upper harmonics of each other and sound amazing....until you kill the bass strings and lose once again some upper harmonics.

ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2012 15:39:20
 
sig

 

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 
I think its partly a function of how the strings are installed and the ambient air temp/humidity factors. I've notice that new trebs always seem to go a touch flat If I haven't played the guitar for awhile, like overnight. It gets better after the new strings have settled in a bit but there is always some adjustment needed. It seems that body heat and ambient room temp warm up the instrument and cause the trebs to stretch back into tune or if I've re-tuned they go sharp after a bit of playing. I don't think your change is a cause for concern, it seems pretty typical to me at least.

When you wind on new strings, a trick I learned was to make sure you have very little in the amount of windings on the rollers/pegs. Make sure you have pulled the slack out of the string and use one or two turns to secure. You don't want any overlap or extra windings as they won't settle in very well. I also do as Ricardo said, I tune up a half step higher with new strings and they seem to settle in very nicely. I use mostly LaBella & D'Addario med tension's on my instruments...
Sig--
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2012 17:23:09
 
edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to Doitsujin) 
quote:

I´m unsure what hurts more in my eyes... the blue chair or the white tap plate!!!


You're probably just jealous of the warmth (at least I am)

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El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 17:03:23
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 
Yeah, its nice now and in spring, but the 4 month of horrible heat makes me jelous of you guys.

The blue chair is pretty because it goes into a whole with the rest of my patio and the white tapplates are very "gitano"

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 18:57:30
 
Escribano

Posts: 6417
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

The blue chair is pretty because it goes into a whole with the rest of my patio and the white tapplates are very "gitano"


Is that Coviran blue?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 19:29:10
 
estebanana

Posts: 9372
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to britguy) 
It's the rich Corinthian leather on the seat which offends me.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 3 2012 20:01:39
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Losing tune - whats normal? (in reply to Anders Eliasson) 
quote:

but the 4 month of horrible heat makes me jelous of you guys.


"Ay, que calor. . .."

No air conditioning where you are?

Even up here in Canada we still get occasional 90 degrees F, plus humidity that takes the index over 100 now and then. Great for ripening fruit, though. . .

(What do they say: 'it's an illd wind, etc. etc. . . ')

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2012 13:48:56
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