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mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

are these a rondena? 
I listened the E. Morente album "cante flamenco". The 1st track is "Calle de los Herradores".
So my question is : cante por rondenas? coz the track description of the palo said (cante de F Hierbabuena)
Is this a person like el Mellizo or it's just one of the fandangos style?





This Morente's cante remind me an A. Campos one. Especially at 2:20 when he starts with the juanillo el loco story.




So are these 2 cante from the same "family"? and same palo? (rondena for me)

btw Daniel Mendez is really killing me with his accompaniment ! i could watch this clip 10X in a row...

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2011 15:37:51
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to mezzo) 
Morente sings the fandango de Frasquito Hierbabuena (1883-1944, sometimes written as "Yerbagüena"). It's one of the folkloric or regional fandangos of the group of styles called cantes abandolaos, cantes de Málaga or fandangos malagueños. Most people call these styles verdiales, which is actually one of the styles of the group, or cantes abandolaos. The complete list of the styles in this group is verdiales, fandango de Frasquito Hierbabuena, rondeñas, jaberas, fandangos de Lucena and jabegote. I didn't take notes, but I think the second video starts with a rondeña and ends with the same cante as Morente.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2011 16:30:46
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to NormanKliman) 
Thanks for the reply Norman. I really enjoy this Yierbagüena cante

quote:

It's one of the folkloric or regional fandangos of the group of styles called cantes abandolaos, cantes de Málaga or fandangos malagueños.

pfff that's why i'm confusing a lot with these. I always hesitate coz these taste like a malaguenas (when it turns in a rythmical way) to my ears.

When i listen to a cd i use to try guessing what palo is. Then i check the credits for the confirmation... i'm often out!
Last time i listened to something tasting like malaguenas or rondenas...i checked and it was a...Jabera. Damn!

I don't know but are these cante abandolaos like soleares? I mean i really have difficulty to recognize a solea de Alcala from a solea de Triana from one of Lebrija etc...
To my ears i can now recognize a solea from a solea por buleria (well not always to be honest). But i can't with the more subtil differences.

Idem for the cante de levante. Minera, Murciana, Cartagenera, Tarantas sounds the more or less the same to my ears

Do you have a remedy doc?

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2011 18:17:48
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to mezzo) 
quote:

Do you have a remedy doc?

Experience, enjoy, repeat.

quote:

Last time i listened to something tasting like malaguenas or rondenas...i checked and it was a...Jabera


They’re similar. At least you knew it was one of those rhythmic malagueñas (cantes abandolaos).

quote:

don't know but are these cante abandolaos like soleares?


No, man. Learn the different rhythms first and you’ll know without asking. The compás and the most obvious parts of the cante identify the group of cantes: soleá, abandolao, siguiriyas, tangos, etc. Other parts of the cante identify the specific style.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2011 21:46:50
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to NormanKliman) 
quote:

No, man. Learn the different rhythms first and you’ll know without asking.

ok! COMPAS is the key. I need to learn english too coz i'm strugglin a lot when it comes to express what i mean

I start auto-medication and i watched the whole Rito y geografia del cante : "de Ronda a Malaga". Very interesting. The pandas looks great. Next time i'll go to Andalucia i'll try to assist at a live fiesta with Pandas.

But on the program they didn't mention Frasquito Yerbaguena...

I also look at some video on yutu. Now i think i'm gonna start to understand how the Malaguenas works.
The singer begin with some coplas from El Mellizo, Chacon or Caracol then when it comes to the rythmic section, he starts (and finish) with an abandolao format (f. de Lucena, de Yergabuena or a Rondena...).
Is this correct?




Here is another version of the cante del Yerbaguena
"Ese Tan taran tan tan tantan" ... excellent!






And may i add : IMO this seems way cooler than the sucking Sevillanas.



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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 13 2011 22:21:35
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to mezzo) 
quote:

The singer begin with some coplas from El Mellizo, Chacon or Caracol then when it comes to the rythmic section, he starts (and finish) with an abandolao format (f. de Lucena, de Yergabuena or a Rondena...).
Is this correct?

With those coplas, others or your own. Abandolaos can stand alone, like in the Polaco video, or they can end cantes mineros and malagueñas, except for malagueña de El Mellizo.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2011 6:32:57
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
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From: .fr

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to NormanKliman) 
quote:

or they can end cantes mineros

Norman could you share some examples of this?

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2011 10:25:45
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14878
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to mezzo) 
quote:

I don't know but are these cante abandolaos like soleares? I mean i really have difficulty to recognize a solea de Alcala from a solea de Triana from one of Lebrija etc...


Meaning it is hard to distinguish when they get mixed, unless they are charted out as on Norman's site. Yeah it is not easy, and as an accompanist it is not so important to be able put each in a proper box, so long as you can accompany them properly. Some singers will mix parts of each style, but usually the forms are the same (see norman's abc or abcd concepts of the letra structures for solea) once you have the right "family" of cantes.

I think if you are truely interested not just for accompanying but to really understand the differences for each cante in a family, learn how to sing some of them. Then the differences jump out very clearly. You don't have to sing them to BE a singer, but just to understand the details of the melody. I am surprised that many aficionados still can't tell the difference between a granaina and a malagueña when they get mixed by a singer. But if you could sing one or the other, it is obvious which is which.

Compas is more secondary actually, as you can have any cante levante in compas of 2 for baile for example, or fandango por solea which used to be popular and is done a lot in rito y geografia. Hearing a fandango por solea, then a Jabera, then a Caña or Polo, it could seem by rhythm and chording they all belong to the same family but actually deserve separate places, not just because of compas.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2011 12:37:48
 
NormanKliman

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Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to mezzo) 
quote:

Norman could you share some examples of this?

Niña de los Peines is one. She used to end cartageneras with fandango de Lucena. Look for her oldest recordings.

Good advice from Ricardo, as usual, about learning to sing.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2011 13:26:55
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to NormanKliman) 
quote:

Good advice from Ricardo, as usual, about learning to sing.


need to reach the minimal gypsy afficion = tocar, cantar, bailar, palmitas y percussion


quote:

I am surprised that many aficionados still can't tell the difference between a granaina and a malagueña when they get mixed by a singer.

hey how do you know that? i'm trying to hide this

Thanks for yours lights!

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 14 2011 17:50:51
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

or fandango por solea which used to be popular and is done a lot in rito y geografia

Ole los puros!



a little couack happened at 4:35

When i watch some Diego vids, he always looks annoyed by some palmeros and ask them to shut down!

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2011 12:18:10
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14878
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to mezzo) 
Nice. My favorite was this one Platero does in Rito y geografia but I can't find the video, but same style and letras I think.



Anyone know which style of fandango this comes from? It is really cool and I never heard it before.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 15 2011 14:55:57
 
NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
 

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

Anyone know which style of fandango this comes from?

Attributed to a singer born in Alcalá named Luis Medina, known as "El Currilla." Fernanda de Utrera recorded it with Marote as "Jugando al mismo juego." Antonio Mairena also has a version among those first recordings he made with Esteban Sanlúcar. The disk is titled "Que huele a flor de romero," but it's the second cante, with this letra:

Compararte yo quería
con un clavel y una rosa
y luego no me atrevía
y juzgarte tan preciosa
por si la flor te ofendía

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 16 2011 6:55:04
 
mezzo

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Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to NormanKliman) 
This chica, Rocio Marquez, is great



the Jabegote's accomp have some Mendez's aire. Anyone know who is the guitarist?

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 16 2011 14:15:53
 
Elie

Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
 

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to mezzo) 
quote:

Anyone know who is the guitarist?

he is Guillermo Guillen I really like him so much
this clip is probably was cut from her dvd Aquí y ahora

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 17 2011 7:46:41
 
mezzo

Posts: 1409
Joined: Feb. 18 2010
From: .fr

RE: are these a rondena? (in reply to Elie) 
quote:

he is Guillermo Guillen I really like him so much
this clip is probably was cut from her dvd Aquí y ahora

Thanks DarkElieDraven.
So he's french. He only play flamenco guitar since 10 years and move to spain a few years ago...

I like the petenera in this album aqui y ahora.



Here's an english podcast about verdiales/malaguenas

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"The most important part of Flamenco is not in knowing how to interpret it. The higher art is in knowing how to listen." (Luis Agujetas)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 17 2011 8:59:22
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