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picado - my views   You are logged in as Guest
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guitarristamadrid

 

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010
 

picado - my views 

Hey guys, I saw an interesting debate going on about flat versus "flexed" picado or something like that. I think the main difference you are getting at is that you can either hold the fingers straight, or bent. Sabicas played with the fingers straight, whereas Paco has them extremely bent.

I have been obsessed with picado, practicing it 6 hours a day with each adjacent pair of fingers (I and M, M and A, A and pinky) for a while now. God, I have so many picado exercises it's ridiculous, I have an incredible one that takes 3 hours to do start to finish

Anyway, believe or not, but I understand the flat vs. flexed debate, and I'll tell you my answer:

They are the same.

They work in the exact same way.

The apparent difference is actually superficial; it just had to do with the angle you hold the hand. The finger tips are contacting the strings in the exact same way.

I alternate between the two all the time, sometimes playing one or the other, and I can go about equally fast with both.

In Entri's class, there are two students who have an exceptionally good picado. Jony, who plays extremely similarly to Paco, and Aquilino, who uses completely straight fingers. If you watch them play picado, they look completely different. But both can play extremely fast and nail things in perfect compas. Jony tends to have a bit better tone and almost never makes a mistake in a picado run, whereas Aquilino is more likely to make a mistake and sometimes gets weaker notes, but has a max velocity faster than anyone I have ever seen, or even heard a recording of.

All of my millions of hours practicing picado have taught me:

1. If you want a solid, thick tone (Paco is the best example of this) you have to dig your fingers into the string so it hits deep on your fingertip. The more naily you catch the string, the weaker and thinner the tone is
2. You have to keep your hand relaxed to play well. Tension appears = speed disappears
3. You have to move your hand in a way that the fingers contact each string at the same angle. Watch your hand as you move up or down the strings (I mean from the 1st to the 2nd to the 3rd). Most people do not keep the same angle. This tendency will destroy you and it must be overcome. Both the flat and flexed approaches overcome this tendency

Picado is actually many techniques in one. Can you repeat notes super fast on one string? That's one piece. Can you play vertically up or down the strings (E string to A string to D string etc) with the same speed? Can you change your left hand fast enough to match the notes with your right? Can you play scales equally well starting with either of the fingers you are using? Can you jump up a string as easily as you can jump down a string, jumping both with I on a lower string and M on a higher string (easier of the two, for most) and with I on a higher string and M on a lower string? To see what I mean with the last one, try this: put I on the 1st string (E) and M on the 2nd (B). Now alternate the two in a trill, playing the notes EBEBEBEBEBEBEBEBEBEBEBEB as fast as you can. The fingers are not changing strings, I is just playing the 1st string and M is playing the second, alternating the two notes as fast as possible. Hard no? But if you can't do that with the exact same speed as you can if you reverse the fingers, then your picado is going to be limited.

I have never seen a player who can do all of this equally. Entri teaches us about 10 specific scales just to practice picado, and each one tends to emphasize a certain aspect of motion. They are quite different from each other. I have never seen anybody who could play them all equally fast.

One day I'll make a video demonstrating some of this and showing how the two approaches are actually the same on a deeper level.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2010 15:10:33
 
minordjango

 

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005
 

RE: picado - my views (in reply to guitarristamadrid

great information amigo,
love to see the video , and even some videos of the palos he teachers (give some of us the headsup!!).

a great book (although its classical) Charles duncan the art of practice he really goes into different methodologys of practice , and has a lot of relevant inf about anything that is technique.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2010 16:01:19
 
guitarristamadrid

 

Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 27 2010
 

RE: picado - my views (in reply to minordjango

palos I've learned so far are:

Solea
Alegrias
Sevillanas
Fandangos de Huelva
Tangos
Bulerias
Siguirillas
Taranta
Granaina
Rondeña
Rumbas

palos that I learned and then forgot and need to learn again:

taranto
solea por bulerias
tientos
caña y polo

and many more...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2010 16:23:58
 
sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: picado - my views (in reply to guitarristamadrid

quote:

palos I've learned so far are:

Solea
Alegrias
Sevillanas
Fandangos de Huelva
Tangos
Bulerias
Siguirillas
Taranta
Granaina
Rondeña
Rumbas


That should get you through the gig!

Your practice routine seems quite intensive. Are you mindful of RSI's (Repetitive Strain Injury) ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2010 21:55:03
 
minordjango

 

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005
 

RE: picado - my views (in reply to guitarristamadrid

quote:

Fandangos de Huelva


hey sean whats your approach to get this locked in *Rhythmically) and what sources are u using ?

RSi is a reality if ya playing so much good point, does one need to practice an exercise for 3 hours ?
careful with that axe eugene
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 4 2010 22:09:13
 
sean65

Posts: 414
Joined: Jan. 4 2010
From: London

RE: picado - my views (in reply to guitarristamadrid

quote:

hey sean whats your approach to get this locked in *Rhythmically) and what sources are u using ?


Play slow with a metronome. Every now and then take the hand-break off and go for it, have a bit of fun, but then back to the grind. It really is early days for me.

Maybe you should pitch that question to 'guitarristamadrid' as he's obviously got access to much more instruction and method.

I'm seeing a Flamenco teacher once a week but I bought the Graf Martinez and Jaun Martin Books 1. The Graf book is good for technique and the Juan Martin just gives you some graded material to work with but doesn't go in to any detail about techniques. It's more supplementary material.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 5 2010 8:16:10
 
minordjango

 

Posts: 918
Joined: Feb. 26 2005
 

RE: picado - my views (in reply to guitarristamadrid

cheers sean , yeah those books are fine , i have them as well,i like the martinez description of palmas maybe thats DVD2, and the information in the book and glossary are pretty cool.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 6 2010 14:09:10
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