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New Style v Old Style
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Ricardo
Posts: 14825
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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 RE: New Style v Old Style (in reply to Ron.M)
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For the record there HAVE been innovations, but Paco de Lucia for one has evolved his own playing along with them. At certain points, the vanguard was Tomatito, then Gerardo, Riqueni, Canizares, Amigo, etc, but everyone else either sticks to their personal style, or incorporates the new ideas. Paco incorporates and tries to add his own touch or forward movement. I personally dont' feel there NEEDS to be a new innovator at this time. And also for the record, there has not been a major innovator in flamenco, that was not WELL versed in the traditional style and repertoire. Even lately, Tomatito recorded Montoya's Rondena (at least some falsetas), Gerardo did Impetu by Escudero.
A NEW innovator will have to be well versed in A LOT of history and repertoire. That is a tall order for a youngster. I was with Javier Conde in Spain this summer. He knocked out a perfect rendition of PDL's doblan companas. So he is off to a good start getting the base. But in 10 years we will see where he is at.
Ricardo
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Date Sep. 9 2006 22:22:45
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aloysius
Posts: 233
Joined: Apr. 7 2005
From: Adelaide, Australia
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RE: New Style v Old Style (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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These are some of my own thoughts on differences between regional styles:
Jerez: Lots of space. Cante accompaniment is considered the highest form of art in Jerez, and a good accompanist will leave a lot of space. Also a love of the "pure" flamenco sound, very difficult to define, one aspect is always staying very close to the tonal centre.
Moron: Long, flowing Moorish sounding thumb lines which keep threatening to resolve but instead keep going, when the final resolution comes there is a lot of impact. In bulerias, lots of changes to major and minor modalities.
Sevilla: Here I believe the dancers have a big influence - most major guitarists here spend many years as dance accompanists and many of Sevilla's best players are happy to stay purely in that role (e.g. Paco Jarana, Paco Arriaga etc.). This influences the playing style in aspects such as choice of Rasgueo. Harmonically somewhere between harmonically simple Jerez and harmonically complex Madrid.
Madrid: Harmonically complex, no holds barred. Use of symmetric scales (whole-tone scale, diminished scale). Some modulation. Cano roto style is probably different to other regions of Madrid, but I don't really know enough to say. Certainly recent "Cano roto" CD releases seem to have a common sound (El Viejin, Ramon Jimenez, Jesus del Rosario) whereas Jeronimo for instance sounds quite different - I've never spent much time in Madrid but maybe someone who has can shed some light on this.
- Aloysius
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www.guitarsketches.com
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Date Sep. 12 2006 2:09:43
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gato
Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007
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RE: New Style v Old Style (in reply to Guest)
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Yes, romerito, we all have to remember that at the advent of the recording industry every aspect of the flamenco changed; the record companies exert their controll wherever it's necessary to maintain the industry, so after that change, there tends to be a certain amount of exerted controll if artists are involved with the recording industry unlike before when influences were more innocent. Artists are responsible to the decisions of the industry.
And subsequently we are not talking major artists actual influences and ablilites, but what was decided for us by the industry. It's a grand illusion.
That's why it's important to see the local artists in your area as well as other areas, and where they are not in a position to listen to the executives. it's a totally different set of circumstances.
I reccomend that we all try to get out and play, wherever we can, even if not for hire or with a company, for that is the spirit and the true calling of the flamenco. That is the difference that takes local effort.
Perhaps wether you are talking pure/modern flamenco, it is your calling to represent that choice as an artist, until you get involved with 'big money.' After that, the artist does what he is told.
But, if the illusion is real for you, and you rely on cd, and major concerts for your information, who is to know?
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The Life Everlasting/Oswald Utopia
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Date Jun. 12 2007 2:22:20
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gato
Posts: 322
Joined: Jun. 9 2007
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RE: New Style v Old Style (in reply to gato)
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I've read in an interview, that the flamenco faces a dillema, in that it's no longer considered a folk art, that there are fewer people getting together for private partys, it's less attainable without the aspect of professionalism, and that it's hurting the validity of the artform. And it's a wonder that it didn't happen sooner, though in my area, California, the local scene is flourishing. That great monolith, the record company, and it's way of doing business with the intensive marketing approaches, and the great enemy, stardom, are probably, and in my opinion, the cause.
Fewer and fewer people consider themselves worthy enough to perform, and just give up, and that beautiful and colorful past that the flamenco is notorious for, is fading, and yet something has got to save the purity of the artform without stifeling it's growth and moderisation. Quite a stagnant era we live in as for the validity and power of the flamenco as a living classic.
And I think that it has to start with the local moovement, and somehow if people can see the great power of expression that they posess as local performers on the small scale it can bring the equasion back in to balance, and then, we would have to see. But as I always say it (flamenco) can't be spoon fed to the masses by corperate exploitation, with out the smaller scale scenes and expect to survive, without loosing all to much of it's form and tradition that we love so much.
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The Life Everlasting/Oswald Utopia
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Date Jun. 13 2007 8:31:53
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Haithamflamenco
Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain
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RE: New Style v Old Style (in reply to Gecko)
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for me " ottmar, jesse cock and gypsy kings" are very light type of flamenco manily based of rumbas 4/4 keys,
i conceder the flamenco is devided in tow three parts,
40 to 60s, sabicas, nino ricardo, diego del gastor etc age,
70 to 90s, paco de lucia, tomatito, moraito, manolo salucar, pep habichulea etc age,
90 to now, vicente amigo,juan diego,juan carmona, manolo franco, paco serrano etc,
i felt it like this, three generations,
i have a close friend his is so first generation, he just hate the third generation of flamenco and he dont respect vicente amigo because as he said that he involved too much blue in jazz in his music,
its always big problem and argument every time we play togother, hahaha 
_____________________________
Bahrain is my country and Andalucia is my dream
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Date Jul. 20 2007 8:45:41
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