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Different forms??   You are logged in as Guest
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Stu

Posts: 2553
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

Different forms?? 
Can anyone give me a quick answer to this one.

What are the differences between the following...

1. SOLEA and SOLEARES
2. SEGUIRIYAS, SIGUIRIYA and SEGUIRILLAS
3. BULERIAS and BULERIA
4. GRANADINA and GRANAINA
5. TANGOS and TANGUILLOS

I have read that if the prefix "uillos" is used it is a "little" version of that toque but small in which way?

Thanks
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2007 21:40:32
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Different forms?? (in reply to Stu) 
I think the only thing that differs is the spelling, except for the tango-tanguillo which are different styles. But I'd better let Ricardo cs. comment on that.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2007 21:46:25
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2007 22:19:13
 
Paleto

Posts: 243
Joined: Jul. 29 2003
From: San Diego, CA

RE: Different forms?? (in reply to Stu) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Manzmann

Can anyone give me a quick answer to this one.

What are the differences between the following...

1. SOLEA and SOLEARES
2. SEGUIRIYAS, SIGUIRIYA and SEGUIRILLAS
3. BULERIAS and BULERIA
4. GRANADINA and GRANAINA
5. TANGOS and TANGUILLOS

I have read that if the prefix "uillos" is used it is a "little" version of that toque but small in which way?

Thanks


Manzmann,

1 - 4 are 1 and the same palos (song types), just different pronunciations/spellings.

Tango and tanguillo are quite different;

Tangos is attributed to Triana (in Sevilla) and are well known in Extremadura too I think. They follow 4/4 time. Andres Batista suggests there are 5 importnat styles - A) Triana, B) Malaga (El Piyayo), C) Cadiz, D) Jerez (Frijones), and E) Canasteros.

Tanguillos, are from Cadiz and also accroding to Andres Batista, they follow 2/4 or 6/8 timing, which I personally have always found confusing and depending on the guitarist, it can be hard to decide which.

-Anthony
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2007 22:38:46
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 25 2007 23:26:13
 
Paleto

Posts: 243
Joined: Jul. 29 2003
From: San Diego, CA

RE: Different forms?? (in reply to Guest) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: romerito

Don't forget Granada

Anthony, do you have Andres book. Very interesting stuff. He is very knowledgable.


You're right, I did forget it. I just re-read that interview Estela did with Marote before he passed on and I still forgot. I don't have any recordings (knowingly) of tango de Granada.

I have the old Maestros and Estilos book, still available from Flamenco-World.

I do want that newer one Flamenco Connection is offering. I also want the new Manolo Sanlucar book.

I think Andres Batista was/is a really knowledgeable guy. He certainly would have a lot to say.

-A
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 26 2007 6:58:09
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 26 2007 7:06:38
 
John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Different forms?? (in reply to Guest) 
quote:

Mispronunciation of the Spanish Seguidilla. A song form of Spanish origin which has absolutely nothing to do with the Seguiriya although I read somewhere that the poetry of the Gypsy Seguiriya had some traits in common and that may be why the name was borrowed.


The Spanish Seguidilla was common in the 19th century - it was given a bit more pep and became Sevillanas.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 26 2007 7:56:29
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Different forms?? (in reply to Guest) 
quote:

I heard Granaina was the specific name from someone, can't remember who. But I think they are interchangeable. However, the Media-Granaina is a separate melodic structure and way of singing.

I'd come across an article on this subject just before reading this, but it took me a while to find it again. Here it is:

Granaína versus Media Granaína

According to this source, both forms were created by Chacon; one is customarily used as a prelude to the other, but at some point the names got switched around.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2007 18:48:32
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14862
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Different forms?? (in reply to Estevan) 
quote:

But read on! Navarro García goes on to say:

    "Later, by one of those inexplicable and strange turns of fortune, the names of these cantes,
    which Chacón dedicated to the province of Granada, were transposed. What Chacón called
    'media granaína' is today known as 'granaína', and consequently, his 'granaína' is called
    'media granaína'."


Well, it just goes to show what I have talked about before. The "names" are not so important as what the actual melody IS. At least to the flamenco musicians themselves. I have even heard it called "Malagueñas" since the two letras are often paired up. But the guitarist simply needs to accompany, the singer needs to sing with feeling and expression and clearity, and the flamencologists can let their "heads swim".

Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2007 14:25:14
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Different forms?? (in reply to Ricardo) 
quote:

But the guitarist simply needs to accompany, the singer needs to sing with feeling and expression and clearity, and the flamencologists can let their "heads swim".


Ole, eso e'!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 5 2007 19:41:15
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