Arbol Genealogico del Cante

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sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

Arbol Genealogico del Cante

For all nerds (like me)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2007 23:12:48

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Arbol Genealogico del Cante (in reply to sonikete)

I have the same one from another source, and I dont understand how Tangos are related to Solea.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2007 7:55:23

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Arbol Genealogico del Cante (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

I dont understand how Tangos are related to Solea

Well it's a bit complicated but Solea had a thing with Buleria. One night, Buleria had a one night stand with Tientos which resulted in a Tangos.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2007 12:14:09

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Arbol Genealogico del Cante (in reply to sonikete)

Actually i dont see the connection there either, but its a nice overview.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2007 19:14:03

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2007 20:00:52

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Arbol Genealogico del Cante (in reply to sonikete)

Murcianas is over on the top right, but i see alot of strange connections and omissions as well, and where are the soulerias?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2007 20:17:07

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arbol Genealogico del Cante (in reply to Guest)

The tree is not really organized by "compas", more by song structure or region. Tientos is structurally the same as Solea, as a song form, but they have different compas. A singer can sing a solea letra, but with the compas and melodic line of Tientos and it works. Same with bulerias and Tangos.

Martinete and siguiriyas are related to Tonas song wise, but Serrana is not. It is supposedly from the mountains, like Livianas, and even Caña. But they are all on the same side of the Tonas trunk, so they are sort of related. There is a good program on Rito y Geografia called "La Serrania", that clears up the connections a bit. I think the tree is pretty acurrate as far was what a lot of aficionados believe. A guitarist accompaniment tree would look a lot different of course.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2007 3:33:10

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2007 6:38:43

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Arbol Genealogico del Cante (in reply to sonikete)

i thought the original of serranas was about a bandit girl from the mountains.
why it has a siguiriyas rythm i don´t know

Serranas

Origins : Córdoba

The experts have as of yet not been able to locate geographically the origins of the ‘cante por serranas’. Many think that it comes from Córdoba, but this is only one hypothesis. It is a ‘copla’ of four verses that rhyme in pairs, the first and the third have seven syllables, the second and fourth have five syllables. It is definitely related to the ‘seguiriya’ since it follows the same rythmic structure, although its accompaniment by guitar is done ‘por arriba’, in E, instead of ‘por medio’. It is known that, one of the first people to perform it was Silverio Fanconetti and afterwards El Mochuelo, El Tenazas, El Onubense Antonio Rengel. Its words tend to make reference to banditry, and from there the name of the ‘serrana’ for this reason it isn’t strange that this song began in the XIX century. Its structure is very rigid and in begins with a “temple por liviana” all the ‘serrana’ is executed in F and finished in different ways, the most widely spread is the ‘seguiriya’ by María Borrico, but the ‘macho’ by Pepe de la Matro is used or even the ‘cante abandolao’.

also a link to a song http://www.andalucia.org/flamenco/palos/sonido/serrana.mp3

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 5 2007 7:00:34

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arbol Genealogico del Cante (in reply to duende)

Thanks for the link Duende. Like I said about "songwise", I mean the melodies. Notice how the serrana is so close related to the melody of Caña and others that go to the major chord that way. Almost like the compas is imposed on the melody. It is totally legit to group things together by compas only, and a good way for guitar accompanysts to keep things together, but it is just another approach to do like this tree is doing.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 6 2007 16:57:23

Paleto

Posts: 243
Joined: Jul. 29 2003
From: San Diego, CA

RE: Arbol Genealogico del Cante (in reply to sonikete)

I sent a link to the same tree to someone here in San Diego who knows quite a lot about flamenco, considerably more than I and his response was that these trees are commonly found in Peñas, but accrding to him, not based upon much fact. His response was that they more fanciful.

It would be great to hear from Zata on this.

-Anthony

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2007 1:03:16

Ricardo

Posts: 14833
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Arbol Genealogico del Cante (in reply to Paleto)

quote:

his response was that these trees are commonly found in Peñas, but accrding to him, not based upon much fact.

Like anything "written down on paper" ABOUT a living, breathing art form. Same with a transcription of a falseta, or a disertation about gypsies. Abstract organizations don't mean anything at all. Or they could be useful, depends how you "use" the tool for learning. For me as a person who plays flamenco quite often, this tree does not have any practical use for me. But it is interesting and I see nothing "wrong" or misleading about it. Does it make one accompany a singer any better or worse? Nah.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2007 11:00:06

sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: Arbol Genealogico del Cante (in reply to sonikete)

Its more a curiousity, but i like the azulejos look and it might give a overview for someone who thought flamenco was just about rumbas or never heard of cartageneras or polos.

But the andalucia.org palo reference site with the recordings is without doubt better and more helpful for those who dont have any anthology at home.

http://www.andalucia.org/flamenco/palos/alfabetico.php?idioma=&campo=

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 8 2007 17:52:26

Paleto

Posts: 243
Joined: Jul. 29 2003
From: San Diego, CA

RE: Arbol Genealogico del Cante (in reply to sonikete)

I like that one too, I think it's very handy.

Also, in response to Ricardo, you're right, it's just an approximation, and can be handy too.

I started to re-read El Cante Flamenco by Angel Alvarez Caballero, anyone else read it? He has somoe very good arguments and is good at picking apart the history and seems to have a fair view on the likeliness of opposing arguments on the early history, circa 1750 - 1800.

-Anthony

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2007 2:40:04