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Tuning and related issues
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rombsix
Posts: 7816
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon
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Tuning and related issues
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Hey mates, I have always had doubts about tuning, so I've decided to ask about to see if I can get some feedback. I have many "methods" of tuning my guitar. Every time I play, I use a different one: 1- Tune it with a tuner (the intellitouch TUNER) and start playing directly - without any further fine tuning. 2- Tuning it with a pitch pipe and playing directly - without any further fine tuning. 3- Tuning the last (bass E) string as a reference note (with either the TUNER or the pipe), then tuning the rest of the strings (5th, 4th, etc., 1st) accordingly / relative to the 6th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, and 2nd strings, by using the "5-5-5-4-5 method" (whereby the 5th fret of the last string should sound like the 5th string, the 5th fret of the 5th string should sound like the 4th string, etc.). 4-Tuning the last (bass E) string as a reference note (with either the TUNER or the pipe), then tuning the rest of the strings (5th, 4th, etc., 1st) accordingly / relative to the 6th, 5th, 4th, and 3rd (without using the 2nd string as a tuning reference) strings, by using the "5-10-10-9-9 method" (whereby the 5th fret of the last string should sound like the 5th string, the 10th fret of the last string should sound like the 4th string, the 10th fret of the 5th string should sound like the 3rd string, etc.). 5- Tuning the last (bass E) string as a reference note (with either the TUNER or the pipe), then tuning the rest of the strings (5th, 4th, etc., 1st) using harmonics, whereby the harmonic on the 5th fret of the last string should sound like the harmonic on the 7th fret of the fifth string, etc. There are many issues I come across. When I use the TUNER, I go back to fine tune and notice that the strings need a good deal of fine tuning (Keep in mind that I am VERY PICKY about tuning. I make sure that the strings are 100% as well tuned as possible before playing. Usually, to see if a string is in tune with respect to the other, I play a note like the A and the last string, and simultaneously play the 5th string. They should sound like only ONE string got played if they are perfectly in tune. It is due to the phenomenon of beats (in physics) that you can feel as though the A note starts to oscillate if there is a bit of frequency difference between the two played strings. I keep my left thumb on the neck in order to better feel the vibrations in the neck, and if I feel as though the vibrations are going on and off (loud and soft) at a very high rate, that means that the strings are very close to being in tune; whereas if the vibrations are very far apart, then the strings are very un-tuned relative to each other.). The same happens when I use the pipe. Also, I feel as though every time I play, a different tuning method works better than the other. The problem I am encountering the most these days however is the B string. It is always difficult to tune. As though the string is defective or something (even though I use different brands of strings). Moreover, I notice that the G string always tends to go sharp instead of flat, after a good deal of playing (all the other strings get flat when they go out of tune, however, except the G string). Is that normal? Thus, the main issue is: 1- Which of the above tuning methods is the most reliable? 2- Do you have any other tuning methods that work well? 3- Is it that my guitar sucks or that the strings I am using are bad (and thus tuning gives me a hard time)? I have two guitars - one of them (my better one) is a Jose Ramirez R1 (whose action I have had lowered), and I usually use D'addario strings or Fender strings (or Adamas). 4- What about those B and G strings? Does anyone go through what I go through with these two particular strings? (Is it maybe the way I tie the strings at the headstock that is creating the problems? I use a knot like I've seen it on some website, maybe on the D'addario site). Thanks for the help, and sorry if this message got too long and wordy. Ramzi
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Ramzi http://www.youtube.com/rombsix
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 3 2006 17:40:16
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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RE: Tuning and related issues (in reply to rombsix)
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The guitar is a tempered instrument. It is actually impossible for it to be perfectly in tune for all keys. Fixing the frets in a certain position means you are compromising to get the best possible all round tuning, but it is not perfect. Consequently, there is no perfect tuning method, but some are better than others. Any method which tunes the strings progressively (eg Rombsix method 3) can progressively exacerbate errors as you go across the strings. If do not have a tuner but you have a tuning fork, it is better to tune one string then tune the others to that. Reece's method (sorry Reece!) is guaranteed to put the guitar out of tune as 5th/7th fret harmonics on adjacent strings are NOT the same pitch. The 7th fret harmonic is a Pythagorean 5th. The guitar fret at the 7th fret is an equal tempered 5th. Tuning them the same puts the guitar out of tune. Concert classical guitarists do what Anders describes - they make small adjustments for the key the piece is in, tuning to the main chords in that key. I use a tuner to get ballpark, then adjust to chords. If I do not have a tuner handy I usually have a fork in which case I tune all strings to that reference, then adjust for chords. The 3rd string presents further problems , especially if you use strings with a thick 3rd, like regular D'Addario. Ideally we would have offset saddles (how come flamenco luthiers don't do this, Anders?) but you should find strings with narrow 3rds behave better.
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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 6 2006 8:51:54
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Anders Eliasson
Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
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RE: Tuning and related issues (in reply to rombsix)
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quote:
I take it you tune the root to a reference tone, play the chord and then adjust to taste? Or is it a one string at a time thing? I guess everyone has his/her own way. What is important is that you dont go from 6th to 5th to 4th etc progressively, just like Jon said I tune the following way in por arriba: First I tune my A string with a fork. Then I tune all the strings open by ear, so that the rest of the process is more or less adjustment. Tuning up guitars is a part of my job, so I have to be a little fast and I get very close to final tuning this way in 5 sec. Then the E- 6th string I tune by holdin the A string on 2nd(B) and 7th(E), finding the best compromise. Then the 2nd (yes) string by using the 6th string 7th fret harmonic the 1st using 5th string 7th fret harmonic The D string I tune by using open E6th string and 4th string 2nd fret. the 3rd string (the difficult one) I tune by playing this chord: 6th string open 5th and 4th string 2nd fret, 3rd string 4th fret. This is what I call an open chord. It only consists of E and B tone, so no harmonic interference. Last thing is to play that chord with 1st(E) and 2nd(B) string open and adjust each string...... I dont know if this is understandable I´m an ex violinist, so tuning is very esencial to me and I hate tempered tuning. It always sound wrong in my ears. Most flamenco singers think the same way Since flamenco is conected to its root chord, I find this way to be the best. I know that it makes some chords, like C sound a bit out of tune, but I prefer to have the root chord (home sweet home) in tune. I tune in por abajo somewhat the same way, but now my brain is tired and I need to do something else than sit in front of my computer
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Dec. 7 2006 8:53:44
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