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Deniz: "aire" and "swing" ?
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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 RE: Deniz: "aire" and &quo... (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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J,
you might listen to these guys, who know a lot more about the subject than the person you addressed it to.
It's somewhat synonymous with the written word vs. a personal conversation. If you and a girl were having coffee and discussing various things, the actual medium of the communication would happen on several plateaus, including the actual words, the tone of the words, the rhythm of the words, the inflection, the eye contact, how often she tossed her hair, whether she crossed her arms, whether you couldn't help yourself to watch the lassie walking by, etc. etc.
If someone were to write down what you said, they would be representing only a fraction of the actual communication.
By way of analogy, the written page only shows part of the music. When someone learns a falseta, they have to supply all the other information. This comes out of their listening experience, their knowledge, their tastes, their personality. When someone adds all of this, then they are playing music and you could describe this as "aire" and in certain styles "swing."
For example, if I gave you a tab for a jazz tune and you played it with no knowledge of jazz, you would play it straight. It would sound stiff, academic--wrong. If you knew enough about jazz, you would add the inflections and rhythmic adjustments to make it "swing." Note that you can't write this stuff down--there's just too much. To write down a jazz tune might take a page, but if you actually took into account everything else, it might run to the size of a book!
I don't actually agree with Doit that aire is added later. As long as you exercise your musical taste, you are adding your own "aire", your own extra information. This might be a heavy metal feeling like Edgar is so fond of, or maybe you know a lot more about Oasis than Alegrias, and that will come out of it. The key is to listen to what you are playign and to use your imagination. Sometimes you will like what you hear, sometimes not. It's good to listen to lots of recordings and go to shows to hear how the pros do it and what it's supposed to sound like.
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Date Jul. 28 2006 16:49:59
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Ricardo
Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Deniz: "aire" and &quo... (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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The posts by Skai and Seanm I agree with. Swing and aire are part of the rhythmic feel, something done with accentuation and the notes between the beats, the off beats. You can define your swing style by just playing contras. You can swing "harder" by putting the off beat even more on the back beat. But there is a way to play right smack in the center of the beat and still give it a "swing feel". Sort of how you release a note or prepare for the next. It is very complex and somehting not "thought" about much, but I could imagine a good software could be programmed in detail to achieve this sound. But what a lot of work for something that a good player can do naturally.
I have had many students suddenly start doing their own swing unintentionally, and I think it is cool, but a good player can do it or not do it depending. It is a problem when you get stuck in the "swing" groove and can't get out of it.
Aire can be not only rhythmic, it is more or less the mood of the piece and form. The "aire" of Rondena is unmistakeable to guitarists. It is achieved by the tunning and scale. No doubt the key of D# phyrigian used by a lot of modern players, can take on the "aire" of Rondena at times for this reason. Or a bulerias in the key of Taranta has a special "aire" different than that of por medio.
I can hear a guitarist play really good, with "swing","aire",pellizcos, etc, but not necessarily duende. When there is duende, the hairs on your arm go up. No ghosts or magic, it really happens. Weird thing is when it happens to everyone in the room and you can all tell it is happening.
Ricardo
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Date Jul. 30 2006 20:06:17
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: Deniz: "aire" and &quo... (in reply to Doitsujin)
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I've got a kinda half-baked theory about this "duende" thing.
In the 19th and early 20th century in rural Europe, there was a lot of strict adherance to the church and a lot of superstition around generally.
Music that was in praise of God, or at least genteel and refined was acceptable.
Innocent Folk Dances and joyus peasant singing was also accepted as part of the rich rural country landscape, so long as it was "respectable".
Flamenco, along with African rhythms etc was clearly out of the acceptable framework.
It provoked too much emotion, too much baring of the soul to be "decent" and also had a sexual element.
With the aid of wine and music, the practicioners were able to "get high", almost out of emotional control, which was frowned upon by God- fearing Christian society.
It entered an area that could be thought of as "demonistic" chanting or African ritual drumming voodoo etc.
Something that could possibly summon darker forces.
(As Doit indicates.."If you open up that other World...could a Demon, or even worse be able to get through?")
I think that the actual practicioners of Flamenco back then, had a slight worry that they may actually be playing with fire here, although like any addicts, they could not stop wanting to participate and get that "high".
I think therefore that it is possible that when very emotionally extreme moments came in a juerga, folk were aware of a dark presence that they might have unintentionally summoned.
In the stuff I've read, "duende" isn't something that is regarded in a joyful way, but in an awesome, practically fearful, dark way.
Jerry Lee Lewis, who was from a very religious Southern family, once said in a very honest and emotional interview that he really believed he was in for eternal damnation for playing, what he truly believed to be "The Devil's Music"...
But he was just too weak to stop himself.. 
As I said, just a half-baked thought at the back of my head!
cheers
Ron
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Date Jul. 31 2006 20:40:01
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: Deniz: "aire" and &quo... (in reply to JBASHORUN)
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James, sorry man i was offline and i couldnt read this thread fully, so i will maybe answer later. But actually Ricardo said everything worth to say.
What i think important is IMO that you find your own tone. You can have loong philosohpical, metaphysical, never-ending discussions on how music should and shouldnt be, what is aire and whats not, without having found anything worth for you. Mainly because this "feeling" things are always damm subjective and everybody has his own interpretation...
The angle how you attack the strings is very important for the tone. It changes so much, i cant explain it. Its not only about playing rythmic or not, playing heavy accentuated or not. These are the most obvious points but there are more "subtile" ones. For me this "subtileness" has much to do with aire. But again, thats only my subjective view. Its music, not science or any other objective topic we're discussing here.
No idea what duende is, i dont know the difference to aire. Im not sure there is any...
"Deniz" is a turkish male and female name. I am male, i thought it was pretty obvious, no?
Very good post there Doit. Thats a good way on how to "unmistify" some things here.
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Date Jul. 31 2006 22:57:26
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Isnt Deniz a female name? That destroys the picture of Deniz which I had in my head. 
haha 
But a scientist with big feelings. Just the transcendental things are bugging me. Its a reflex to challenge it....I cant do anything to stop myself.. 
haha
