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henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

bulerias? 
im wondering how long would it take to "get" the bulerias compas, i undertand it as follows so correct me if im wrong

its a 12 beat pattern with the cycle starting on 12 and the accents as follows
12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

on the second cycle you can have and accent on both 7 and 8
12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

and the phrase finishes on 10, if your're going into a falseta or another direction with the tempo.

its hard for me to up the tempo with my palmas (something which im working on) its like my head wont let me, and compared with the palmas on some cds its amazing how they can keep it up. ive being getting more intersted in doing palmas as i really think its helping me internalise the rythmn, doing palmas along with a cd is fun too but tricky.

so how long did it take some of the veteran players on this board to "get" bulerias?

Henry.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2006 15:13:56
 
Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: bulerias? (in reply to henrym3483) 
I'll let you know when it happens!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2006 16:21:03
 
Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: bulerias? (in reply to henrym3483) 
(12) 1 2 (3) 4 5 6 (7) (8) 9 (10) 11

This way of counting is often misunderstood. Its not really an accent on 7. The accent on the 7 just introduce the main accent on troke 8. I dont like this way of counting.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2006 16:41:09
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14855
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: bulerias? (in reply to henrym3483) 
I read about this 12 count and was listening to flamenco for a few months before I "got it" or so I thought. It was Carmen Amaya's record Queen of the gypsies, where she does these fast triplets with her feet starting on ONE, but accenting on 3,6,8,10, 12 etc. I realized why it was called ONE, or more important where 12 was falling in the music (bulerias of paco and others) I was listening to.

Soon after I encountered the "half compas", and just thought that was weird. But I kept learning and started to accompany dance class. I could play most of the stuff and keep time, but slowly started to learn what people call "tapping in 2's", which I figured out from some videos of PDL, Tomatito, etc. But I went to spain in 1999, and literally I learned what bulerias was SUPPOSED to feel like that first night. Palmas groove etc, that is when I finally "got it". 12 count has nothing to do with it, and in fact thinking that way made it very complex for me, more than necessary. Half compas is not weird to me anymore. The compas CD/flamenco metronome is fun to practice with after you "get it", but misleading in terms of the fundamental feel. Get used to listening to this simple palmas track from Todds site:

http://michaelk101.com/todd/toddmp3/jerezpalmlong.mp3

The first clap you hear would be 3 or 9 in a 12 count. It can be felt either way, because the fundamental feel is 6, not 12. The down beat is count 6 (or 12), so the first clap is not the down beat in this mp3. There is a contra clap between counts 1 and 2. So the clapping phrase that repeats is 1&2, THREE, 4,5,6, 1&2THREE, 4,5,6...etc.

Get used to this sound and try to practice just playing compas with this, rather than the compas CD or metronome.

You can hear me strum compas against this palmas track in begining and end of this video:
http://michaelk101.com/todd/toddmp3/Ricardopdlfast.wmv
If you try to count out the falseta I play, you will notice it does not work in 12. I could not play this with a compas CD or flamenco metronome without adding/subtracting music. Yet it IS bulerias and it IS in compas. I don't know where exactly I would define a single half compas exactly, it all just feels natural to me. My point is, if you can play to this palmas track, then you "get it".



Hope this helps.

Ricardo
PS thanks to toddk for the links.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2006 16:42:22
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: bulerias? (in reply to henrym3483) 
quote:

im wondering how long would it take to "get" the bulerias compas


Henry,
It's not like you just "get" it...that suddenly it just clicks and then you can play or clap along to any Bulerias whatsoever.
Bulerias can be rhythmically fairly simple, following the examples you gave...or be very complex, with lots of syncopation that offer no clues as to where you are...unless you are very experienced and have listened to lots of stuff for years.
Don't worry...just clap along to stuff as much as you can until you lose the place and then pick up again.
Slowly you'll get better and better at following more complicated stuff and won't get thrown so much by phrasing and syncopation.

cheers

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2006 16:44:19
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: bulerias? (in reply to Ron.M) 
im kinda working by the maxim familiarity breeds understanding so the more i listen and clap and try to play these palos, the better i will get. its like i can follow the beats in my head when listening to a piece by nino de ricardo or ramon montoya but when it comes to transferring it to my body and producing something myself i kinda fall down

kinda like watching tv all input and no interaction and for some it make for little or no ability to hold a conservation more than 15mins on one subject
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 31 2006 17:05:33
 
Thomas Whiteley

 

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: bulerias? (in reply to henrym3483) 
There is someone on another forum that thinks that Bulerias is the first palo that you should learn. Perhaps he is right but I would think that many aspiring flamenco guitarists would quickly loose interest in flamenco. To me Bulerias is “the palo that seperates the men from the boys”.

When I am amongst Gitano’s the first thing you will hear them say is, “Play Bulerias”! They will hand you a guitar and then you are on your own.

Bulerias comes in different flavors – some count in sixes and some in 12’s. Just find a recording you like and emulate it. Traditional flamenco is good to accompany – you can hear the compas and beat – it has feeling.

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Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 1 2006 1:51:58
 
Mark2

Posts: 1877
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: bulerias? (in reply to henrym3483) 
personally, it took me a long time to get it, way too long! counting twos was a huge step in understanding- a guy just gave that to me driving to a gig one day and the lightbulb went on. years of groundwork fell into place with that one tidbit of insight. playing in dance classes i think is still the best way to learn, although it is not the only way judging by some of the guys on this forum. I think what Ricardo said about being in the right place is very true.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 2 2006 8:02:48
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