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!!!!!! Winter Collaboration Challenge !!!!!!   You are logged in as Guest
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Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

!!!!!! Winter Collaboration Challeng... 

The Collaboration Winter Challenge Needs You!!

Rui recently threw up a poll about what people might like to do for the next challenge. Good one Rui!! The results were as follows

I would like to compose my thing on a given palo 12
VS
I would like to play a given set of falsetas 6

Voting 8
VS
No Voting 2

My stuff on a collaborative track (record to a pulse/beat) 6
VS
Leave my stuff alone (record anyway you want) 4

On top of that, several people mentioned they wanted the palo to be bulerias, so bulerias it is.

After much rum, procrastination and idly mulling over Darwinian natural selection in my ever so slightly revolving brain, I hit on an idea that (I think) could cover most of those points, get people uploading more regularly and resurrect some of the energy and enthusiasm of the Cante Accompanyament Practice thread.

The challenge is open to everyone regardless of ability. The idea is to collaborate on a whole bunch of different tracks (actually several per entrant) for 2 months and at the end people vote for their favorite track. You can compose, play old trad stuff, collaborate, not collaborate, do what ever you want - just make sure that there is a good dose of cante, a tasteful dose of bottom spanking falsettas, plenty of regular uploading (so others can steal your material - if people don't upload it ain't going to work) and so much swing that your Granny is going to throw aside her Zimmer frame, snap her fingers and get up and dance.

Bear with me, here's how this is going to work...

1) There will be a Dropbox account set up just for the challenge. Each contestant will have a folder in which they keep the material they're working on (ideally they will have one sub-folder for each recording session that results in a new master tack - more of that below). So first step is to make a post below to say you're in and then send me an email address that works so I can invite you to the Dropbox folder.

2) The next thing you need to do is arm yourself with one or more unaccompanied cante tracks and / or palmas tracks. You can visit the Cante Accompanyament Practice thread, pull one off YouTube, record a bunch of mates knocking on a table or make one yourself. Don't worry about capo position at this stage because you can change any aspect of your track.

3) Once you've got your cante track throw it into your Dropbox folder so others can steel it, edit it, chop it up, extend it, fade it out and fuse it to something else in any way they like.

4) Now get recording. Your guitar, your palmas, cajon, jaleo, attempts at cante, your mate's better attempts at cante. Do what ever you feel bold enough to offer the community.

5) Multi-track recording is definitely indispensable here. Splice and mix as much as you need to. Steal from the others entrants freely. Let's say someone plays a blinding falsetta and you want it in your track you can either do the traditional thing of learn it and record your own version, or you can just go ahead and copy and paste it into your DAW and blend it in with your own material. How far you go with the editing in a DAW is entirely your decision, being a technophobe should not prevent you at least recording your playing and uploading that, but for this to be really collaborative the more people getting their hand dirty with the mixing the better.

6) When you finish each recording / editing session make a master track and save that and all the tracks that went into it into your Dropbox folder. These should be named as follows YOURNAME_MASTER_DATE.wav, YOURNAME_guitar1_DATE.wav, YOURNAME_guitar2_DATE.wav, YOURNAME_cante1_DATE.wav, etc. If you've edited a track of someone else acknowledge it by calling it something like THEIRNAME_YOURNAME_guitar1_DATE.wav

7) Finally upload your latest master track to this thread. Or if it is too big provide a link. It's really important to upload regularly, then others can take your work and try to improve it / incorporate it into their own work in any way they like.

8) As the challenge progresses you will accumulate a collection of a whole bunch of different master tracks to your name. A little before the 6th February indicate which one of your own master tracks you nominate as your favorite. We will then have a foro wide vote on which is the best track.

Right now I'm not in favour of pseudonymes because it would be cumbersome with the method of collaboration outlined here.

I hope that's clear. If you've any questions fire away. Constructive suggestions for improvement could be adopted over the next few days, but above all we do need to get this started otherwise it will never get started.

Don't delay. Sign up for the Foro Collaboration Winter Challenge now!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 3 2015 4:06:14
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

Too tired to read it all right now but I'm in! Lol
EDIT: aight, I read it, very cool. I'm in, got a cajon, solid wood table, terrible flamenco cante voice and a cheap guitar, I'm fully equipped! Lol

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 3 2015 4:48:49
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Leñador

Ole Hombre!!

The Dropbox folder has been created. Once you've sent me a message with your email address I can invite you to join the juerga.

Hasta pronto amigo!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 3 2015 11:54:57
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

In reply to Stu's question on his awkward left hand stuff thread...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu
dunno about the challenge? I was reading it the other day. its pretty daunting. seems to me like we'd be recording a complete track no? perhaps i skim read and didnt really take it in. illl look again now. Id like to do a challenge. Ive never joined in.

Thanks Stu for the this. It's really tough getting this going when so many people have gone mute on the matter, your feedback is really useful.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu
seems to me like we'd be recording a complete track no?

Not in one take!! Apart from anything else I'm not good enough and I suspect it would be a challenge too far for many of the amateur players here.

I see this more as putting together a collage, just record and upload small snippets as often as you can, a falsetta here, a letra there. I've no idea how hard it is going to be to start patching things together into a track, but even if that step fails, the act of recording and uploading is a chance for many to become a better flamenco guitarists.

So this challenge is completely adaptable to the needs of begginer and intermediate players. I don't see why advanced / pro players would want to bother with this.

I'll post an example soon to get the ball rolling.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2015 21:47:36
 
Dudnote

 

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[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Dec. 5 2015 23:25:02
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2015 22:17:33
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote
I'll post an example soon to get the ball rolling.

As promised, something to get the ball rolling. Some solea por bulerias. I know we said the palo was bulerias, but we're just warming up here

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/content_link/umNxHr93GDOCC8AVotEaKDVDaylg7bGr7pKNj6bnEkZG0JgFTvZTB0YFpMsk0keF/file

Now I'm not expecting this cut to make it to the final track, there are several aspects that could be improved. But after many takes this is the best I got so time to share otherwise collaboration is impossible.

For this to work people have to accept a warts n all approach and go for regular uploads of the best they can do. If intermediate and beginner guitarists embrace this then they will improve as players over the next two months.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2015 23:29:15
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

Just to drive home the message about the need to encourage players of all levels to participate, here is my 7 year old son Dudnotito having a go

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/content_link/lLHZG7ZAn7y4rt730RF8toBcIKQnk7jB7mRHcGREWZZM9da8cIHMZP8zOiQkXIgz/file

Ole Dudnotito! That sounds very modern. Perhaps it's time to start studying the basic chords of por medio.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 5 2015 23:37:18
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

Anyone understand Dropbox enough to know why links to files don't work for more than 1/2 an hour? More importantly, we need a work around...

Edit: easiest work around is to start a thread in the upload area...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 0:58:00
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudnote

Anyone understand Dropbox enough to know why links to files don't work for more than 1/2 an hour? More importantly, we need a work around...

Edit: easiest work around is to start a thread in the upload area...

So for now, there is the !!!!!!!! Winter Challenge Upload Page !!!!!!! in the upload area.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=285191&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=1&smode=1&s=#285192

Not sure what we'll do if file size starts passing the foro upload limit. Cross that bridge when we get to it I guess.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 1:25:14
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

Dud dude, don't take this the wrong way but.. since you quoted the results from my poll, I feel I should say something.

Those three parameters were chosen for a reason. Although you pasted them here, you are really far from what they actually mean so don't feel bad if only two or three people post something and then forget about this.

In a way, your system kinda blocks the way to "compose my own thing", it removes the fun aspect of voting on nicknames and has nothing to do with what "my stuff on a collaborative track" actually stands for. For these reasons, it's understandable that people who took the poll aren't that much interested on what you came up with.. but maybe others will.


To sum this up, the most voted parameters should result in a "challenge as usual" but where we would listen to the entries all sequenced in one track instead of having separate mp3 files.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 15:04:20
 
edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

According to this dropbox forum
links don't expire.

When sharing a file or folder you can set an expiry date if you're on anything but the basic program:



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 15:53:50
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Sr. Martins

Welcome back Rui!! No hard feelings at all mate. Perhaps you're right.

The lack of response has reminded me of something I see all the time as a native English speaker living overseas. So often when I meet overly keen parents and their kids one of the parents will go something like "our daughter Florence is studying English at school, say something in English to the English guy Florence", at which point Florence shrinks within her self and goes in her head "get me out of here".

It looks to me like the same thing has happened here - it was a concept too far.

You want to take over? We could delete the failed challenge threads and start from scratch. I'll keep my crazy ideas to myself...

...apart from just one request, and that is we some how build cante into this track. Otherwise I'm not up for this, but perhaps there are enough others who are to make it work without me.

That could work if we take a long enough unaccompanied cante track and insert extra measures of solo compas between the letras to accommodate the falsettas.

The ball is your court Rui.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 17:02:54
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

quote:

The ball is your court Rui.


I chose not to get past the survey stage and there's a reason for that.


If you really want to try again, my suggestions would be:

- Allow composition as much as possible (metronome/beat is one thing, a specific track to play on is another. If you choose a track, make it the same to everyone.)

- Users should be anonymous up till the end

- Forget the "active collab" thing, it won't work here.. even less as a challenge. If you can get everyone to play to a beat, that's enough to tie the pieces togheter to a backing track.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 17:32:11
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Sr. Martins

OK. Why not. But I'm not doing anything on this until there is a bit more enthusiasm from others on the foro about it all. Otherwise I'll just set myself the challenge of working one by one through the tracks on the Cante Acomp thread, which is something I've wanted to do for a long time but keep getting side tracked.

If enough people respond positively to your suggestion I be happy to stay involved.

Who's in?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 17:43:17
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

I personally didn't care if it was a challenge or not, I just liked the idea of a bunch of people collaborating towards something.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 17:43:38
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Leñador

Ole Lenny!!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 17:45:35
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Leñador

quote:

I personally didn't care if it was a challenge or not, I just liked the idea of a bunch of people collaborating towards something.


That's the "problem" I see here.

He calls it a challenge but it's far from what people usually do as a challenge. Might be better to call it something else and start from scratch.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 17:50:44
 
Dudnote

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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Sr. Martins

The foro flamenco collaborative album?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 17:52:08
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

quote:

The foro flamenco collaborative album?


Do whatever you feel like doing, really. I just pointed out that what you want to do is far from what the poll presented. No wonder people bailed out.

Maybe you could do a new one with your ideas and go from there. That should give you a more realistic idea of who wants to do what.

But yeah, calling it a challenge is very misleading given what is usually a challenge here so you might want to call it something else.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 18:03:33
 
Dudnote

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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Sr. Martins

I'm not convinced we need a new poll, it imposes too much.

We would have a much clearer idea of what people want if people would say what it is they want. My wife believes I should know what she wants by telepathy, looks like 99% of the foro does too. Kiko spoke up. He wants a traditional challenge - that's great we know he wants a traditional challenge. Andy spoke up too, he wanted something with composing - fantastic! It would be great if others were as vocal.

Lenny and I are up for starting a collaboration thing, so that can go ahead and others are welcome to join in - the more the merrier.

Lenny, you up for changing it to the Foro Collaborative EP / Album?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 18:17:07
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

quote:

I'm not convinced we need a new poll, it imposes too much.


That depends on what choices you put on the poll. Mine was pretty easy and clear, you either wanted fish or meat for each of the 3 subjects.


Given that you took the results from that poll and came up with something very different, I would say that we have different views on what "imposing" means.


Go on.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 18:40:05
 
Dudnote

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Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to edguerin

Thanks Ed for the tip. I'll give that a shot in in the testing area.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 19:17:49
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins
Given that you took the results from that poll and came up with something very different, I would say that we have different views on what "imposing" means.

Fair point. My apologies for pissing on your fireworks so to speak.

Sorry, I just can't get excited about polls. But I've moved my crazy ideas about collaborating to a new thread called "La juerga de foro flamenco". Anybody wanting to compose, play, record and collaborate is welcome to participate there.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 20:35:36
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

I'm down for whatever, not sure we're gunna get enough material for an "album" per se but I'm sure it'll be fun.
Honestly, with everyone contributing its probably gunna come out kind of scattered and terrible sounding but it'll have some cool intersting parts and it'll be funny and fun to do. I'm not picturing a masterpiece coming of this, just something fun and memorable to do.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 6 2015 21:39:43
 
DavidRG

 

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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

Hello, friends.
My name is David, I'm from Madrid, Spain.
I'm new here and I've never been a member of any forum, so please forgive me if I make some kind of mistake or if I need some time to learn how this works.

After reading this post, I've come up with a new collaborative idea.
Maybe we could choose one particular flamenco song (for example, "Caballo negro", by Manolo Sanlucar). Then we ask "who wants to do something collaborative with this?"
If we have, for example, 8 people, we split the song in 16 parts. We distribute the segments (2 per user). Each user has to record 2 different segments and upload it.
At the end, we paste all segments together and...it should work :)

I hope you'll like this idea, for this challenge or maybe for a future challenge.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2015 14:29:23
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to DavidRG

The idea is good .. and something could maybe be done ... but ......

"Caballo negro", by Manolo Sanlucar......

wouldnt be the first or second choice for many here ....I see ot as a very comercial non flamenco tune ...

lo siento mucho .tio , pero asi es ...

but the idea is not bad really

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2015 15:49:37
 
Leñador

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From: Los Angeles

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

Yeah that's not a bad quick challenge idea! We could vote on the exact song.....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2015 17:39:55
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1805
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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to DavidRG

Hola David, bienvenido au foro flamenco

I don't know if you noticed (it could be easy to miss), but this winter challenge idea transformed itself into a thread that is called "La juerga de foro flamenco" where a bulerias de Jerez without guitar has been carved up into about 5 or 6 pieces with the idea that different guitarists can play different the sections and we then fuse the pieces back together. So far only 2 guitarists have uploaded stuff, so you'd be very welcome to join with that collaborative project.

The main difference between that and what you propose is your approach has more of a note for note you play this, you play that approach. It could prove popular since most previous challenges have in fact been based around a set piece of music.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2015 19:04:05
 
Nito

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RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

Can collaborate everyone?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2015 19:25:40
 
DavidRG

 

Posts: 41
Joined: Dec. 12 2015
 

RE: !!!!!! Winter Collaboration Chal... (in reply to Dudnote

El Kiko:
You are absolutely right. It's a bad choice. "lo siento mucho .tio , pero asi es ..." jaja :)
But to my defense I have to say that I was thinking about the very beginners, people who cooul hear that and say "I can do that".
Please, give me a second chance. One of my favourite songs of all times is "La pajarraca" by Juan Manuel Cañizares, but it's very difficult even for an expert player. I think a good choice could be "Boabdil", by PepeHabichuela

Leñador: I agree, that could be funny

Dudnote: you are right. I'llcheck the thread "La juerga de foro flamenco". But unfortunately I can't help you by adding any guitar playing. Maybe I could buy a "cajon" some day and add some percussion ;)

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www.eltablaoflamenco.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 12 2015 20:09:02
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