Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





Oil varnish on a blanca?   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Perrate

 

Posts: 30
Joined: Jul. 23 2015
 

Oil varnish on a blanca? 

Dear friends

I`m just finishing my first guitar.
So the big question now is which finsh should i do.
FP is no option, because i need to pratice it first for a several time.

I just find some good varnish which is quite good for a beginner like me.
https://www.joha.eu/shop/en/guitar-varnish/index.htm

The dealer told me, that the oil varnish is special. After the aplication the guitar looks dull (not glossy). Actually I like the idea (vintage). BUT ist a flamenco guitar and at the end I`m going to put a golpeador on it. And... the golpeador is ...hmmm...glossy.

So.. I`m not sure how it`s going to look like after...

Has anybody some experiance?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 7 2015 18:58:31
 
Stephen Eden

 

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Oil varnish on a blanca? (in reply to Perrate

I think it's more a matter of taste. If you think it will look odd then no one saying it will be fine will help you with that. However I personally think it will look fine.

Personally I would go a head and french polish it. There is only one way to get good at it and that is to do it. Plus it's no big deal if it doesn't look good straight away you can keep at it until you are happy. It's also easy enough remove if you want to start again.

_____________________________

Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2015 9:22:27
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Oil varnish on a blanca? (in reply to Perrate

I personally like Oil varnish a lot.
Its easy to apply and it is acoustically on par with French Polish and a thin nitro lacquer.

I dont use it because I´m in this game professionally and clients want FP. And also because oilvarnishes need a good amount of (smelly) drying time
I have finished a handfull of guitars in Oilvarnish and 4 violins. And i might finish a guitar in oil varnish again.

I dont know the product you mention. I have used TrueOil, which is NOT an oil but a varnish. It doesnt penetrate more than other finishes, it hardens and you can apply many layers and build thickness (=varnish). If you apply enough layers, it can be handrubbed to a very beautifull gloss.
You must have patience, but its easy to work with.

Besides that, I agree with SEden. Everyone can finish a guitar with French Polish. You will make errors and get frustrated, but it will be finished and you´ll learn a lot.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2015 16:19:55
 
Erixon

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Nov. 28 2015
From: Forest of Dean, UK

RE: Oil varnish on a blanca? (in reply to Perrate

Hey Perrate, I'd say just go ahead and try FP, it is really worth it. I recently did my first FP too and I'm totally mindblown how awesome it turned out at the end. After I finished I couldn't even stop looking at the guitar, so beautiful gloss and antique touch it has received. And the best thing that I learned is that the finish is not fragile at all (on the contrary to the popular belief)
However, I did it a bit differently, I didn't use oil (on purpose, I wanted to avoid longer curing time and stickiness). I'm playing the guitar daily now for few weeks, still no sticking at all, despite it often gets in contact with my skin and body heat while playing. So it is possible to avoid oil, but rubbing gets a bit trickier. Surface is not 100% glass-smooth, but nevertheless it shines terrific.

Watch some tutorials on YT how the sessions are done, there are dozens of good videos. It may give you some initial ideas and guidelines. You can try it on a piece of wood first to become familiar with the feeling and rubbing technique.

Here is the final product:





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 8 2015 20:41:38
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Oil varnish on a blanca? (in reply to Perrate

Erixon
You have gotten something wrong there
The oil doesnt make shellack cure slower or make it more sticky. Not at all. The oil seperates from the shellack right away and can be removed.

We use oil because it makes the rubbing a LOT easyer and you can apply thicker coats in one go.

Nice looking guitar btw.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2015 7:49:54
 
Erixon

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Nov. 28 2015
From: Forest of Dean, UK

RE: Oil varnish on a blanca? (in reply to Anders Eliasson

Thank you Anders, I really appreciate you liked it.
I thought so, but I wasn't entirely sure. I had a great amount of repair works done on this guitar, sealing cracks, closing one nasty rectangular opening on the side after removing the preamp originally installed, making new fretboard, putting new frets, making new bridge and rather complicated set up adjustments in order to compensate for rather high action on the 12th fret, all in all I did my best and I'm quite proud of the result to be honest since the guitar now sounds much more complete than ever before. Also, made a new ebony nut and saddle.

When the guitar came into my possession it had a dull, sticky and somewhat unprofessionally done fresh FP job on its back, apparently to mask some cracks. After some time dirt has been catching into it and my assumption was that it has been the result of too much oil been used during polishing. Don't know, the surface did not look or feel right. I heard some other luthier saying that drying of shellac may increase to months if too much oil gets trapped between layers of shellac. So I avoided it cause I needed the guitar look and feel dry at the end. But I may have misunderstood. What is you opinion for the cause of sticky shellac?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2015 10:49:00
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Oil varnish on a blanca? (in reply to Perrate

I used to finish guitars with oil varnish (Epiphanes brand), before I mastered French polishing. I stopped using varnish because the fumes in the house were making me sick. But it makes an extremely durable and beautiful finish. Many coats are usually necessary (5 to 10), with sanding in between, and a final leveling sanding and then buffing with abrasives. I also sometimes had some problems with varnish not curing on exotic woods, such as rosewood and ebony.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 17:51:52
 
Perrate

 

Posts: 30
Joined: Jul. 23 2015
 

RE: Oil varnish on a blanca? (in reply to constructordeguitarras

Thank you for all the response. You help me me to choose. I will order the oil varnish this week. Why: During the process of makeing the guitar I really felt in love with the wood. The smell, the surface, the carracter the hole haptics. I hope that the varnish will keep a little bit of this feeling. Maybe more than a thick FP layer. Maybe. As soon as the guitar is finish I will post some pics.

Of corse one day I`m going to try FP.

By the way, the soundboard I got from Swizerland. Near the place where I live. It`s tonewood from Bergün. I have here a short promotion film about this company.
Maybe it`s intresting for you.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 10 2015 18:41:10
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Oil varnish on a blanca? (in reply to Perrate

Ahh, Moonwood from Bergün. Lovely material, I have used many soundboards from them and still have a few lying around.
(Please, if someone now wants to discuss moonwood, make a new thread! There´s plenty of space )

I understand your choice, a semi-gloss or matte oil varnish finish is very beautifull and nice to touch. Make sure you give each layer enough time to dry before applying the next one. That is very important. And leave it a good while to final dry. before putting the tap plate on.
You can make the tap-plate less glossy by lightly rubbing it with steelwool 0000 and micromesh 3200 grit. And if the finish ends up to glossy for your taste, you can degloss it with the steelwool as well, but with a very light hand. It rubbs mor than you think.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2015 7:46:50
 
Erixon

 

Posts: 7
Joined: Nov. 28 2015
From: Forest of Dean, UK

RE: Oil varnish on a blanca? (in reply to Anders Eliasson

This is quite interesting, so far I have not heard about oil varnish at all, except oils used for general polishing of fretboards. But I guess those are two different things, right?

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2015 9:44:16
 
constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Oil varnish on a blanca? (in reply to Erixon

The way I am using the term "oil varnish" is in the traditional sense. Traditionally, varnish was made by heating (cooking) a vegetable oil that can "dry." In the industry they are called "drying oils." Such an oil is linseed oil. Nowadays soy bean oil is also used. The way they dry is by polymerizing--the molecules link together to form one big piece of plastic. Oil varnishes can have many kinds of additives that control the properties, such as resins and catalysts for drying (and solvent to make application easy) and flatting agents to reduce the gloss. The initial cooking of the oil thickens it; that is, causes it to partially dry. Drying agents such as certain metal salts cause it to dry quickly when exposed to air. Resins can make it harder or tougher or more flexible.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2015 15:03:15
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Oil varnish on a blanca? (in reply to Perrate

Funny you say that you havent heard about oil varnish. In the "good old days" varnish was oil varnish.
Its used a lot on wooden boats. Its very beautifull and flexible. The brand that Ethan mentioned is very famous for their boat oilvarnish. But it stinks and has a tendency to give headaches etc. So ventilate well

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 11 2015 18:14:29
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

5.859375E-02 secs.