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REAL BOOK Colombianas y Fandangos
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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 RE: REAL BOOK Colombianas y Fandangos (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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lol, ofcourse man ! you have to stick to your guns, i told you , u have to push and complain, and kick and cry when it seems like everyone else has lost interest. Have i not tought you anything all this time  ? do you think my rating is 58 cause people wanted to give me score  ? no. they knew that it would be the only way to shut me up when i was complaining about it , stop beeing such a litlle lady HemeolaMan and act like a man... complain.
Watch and observe my litlle amature friend let me show you a litlle thing only a romanian mother can teach you, i am black belt in it.. " Guilt"  ....
Guys ...why are you doing this to me ? why are you ruining my life ? do you wanna put me in the ground ? dont let him do all the work alone, you are all going to want a copy when its done, even if you dont have anything to contribuite please let him know that you are here and interested atlist, noone likes beeing ignored, expecially since hes doing this for all of us, cause he dosent need to be, he can just keep all the stuff I and others have allready sent him for himself, end of story, dosent need to put himself trough beeing ignored.
we will all be thankfull when he does do this but he needs a litlle help, encouragement etc.
the foro really is how and what we make it, noone else is gonna come and make it better for us if i can upload 7 - 8 mb. zips and email em to him on my 56k moddem, so can you.
stop hurting me like this, i dont deserve this pain, he called me up at 2 in the morning yesterday in tears because everyone was ignoring his litlle project.. help with the f****g project
@ HemeolaMan ...That should do it 
ps. Sorry i have been on and off lately, but i will make a litlle zip with usefull stuff for you as soon as i get the chance.
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Date Jan. 23 2008 17:26:09
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Ricardo
Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: REAL BOOK Colombianas y Fandangos (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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quote:
okay so should i even bother doing this realbook thing at all?
Did you yet purchase or borrow a copy of Merengue de Cordoba's cante accompaniment vid with book? If not, and if I were you, I would take a look at that first as a basis. Also Oscar Herrero has done similar but more indepth "real books" for Cantinas, Solea/Caña/Polo, and maybe more I am not sure. And Manolo Franco also has recently done an in depth series on the same subject, which I have not seen but heard was very good. Cante accompaniment is important, because from that base you have the chords, AND a lot of the little licks and leads that are "standards" in flamenco, that are the basis for solo compositions and even dance choreographies.
I first recommend the merengue vid and book because it is concise and covers just about "all you need to know" generally speaking. It is as close to a "real book" like you find in jazz, that you can get. Remember the "real book" was compiled by jazz guys for jazz guys, not jazz students for students. It is important that you get truely experienced and authentic contributions for such a project. Too many classical methods I have seen incorporate BS flamenco, leaving the students with a skewed view of what flamenco guitar is about.
Now if for some reason you don't WANT to check out those materials and only want to learn AND compile info based on this FREE forum, then I must ask why exactly?
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Date Jan. 24 2008 18:28:04
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: REAL BOOK Colombianas y Fandangos (in reply to Ailsa)
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well if everyone is thinking what i am thinking is like a flamenco guitar handbook.
with info on everything to do with flamenco guitar, cante, techniques exercises, chords, scales, escobillas, cierres, llamadas.. typical palo falsetas etc. everything.
any kind of info we can get our hands on that might be usefull
some will be detailed and some just basic and general depends on what we get and how much info there is out there about it.
for example, one has to start accompaning Alegrias for dancers for the first time, not sure where to start, he could open this and find escobillas for alegrias, silencio, cierre, chords sequences, trad basic falsetas (something that is not copywrited) llamada etc.
Or the same thing, is starting to accomp Cante Alegrias, this can give a basic general idea of chords used for trad cante, ofcourse we cant cover every single modern letra but if nothing else it gives an idea of the kind of chords one could use for cante, so if you are having to work it out by ear, you allready know the chords that it could be. Might not turn the light on completly for you in all situations but it will atlist light a candle so u not walking into the wall 
u can find this in other books, but we are thinking using everything we have at once in the same book for more examples and choices of everything.
its not really a beginner book or a dummy book one would have to know what they are doing but it is more a big book, giving more ideas and choices and prespectives and perhaps examples of what a falseta has evolved from.
Taking alot of the good info we atm have spread apart and putting it togheder under a big book, simple.
personally i think it is a brilliant idea
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Date Jan. 25 2008 1:26:01
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Ricardo
Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: REAL BOOK Colombianas y Fandangos (in reply to Ailsa)
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quote:
So Ricardo, are you suggesting that there is already the equivalent of everything we might need, it's just that we have to pay for it? If yes, that's a fair point - flamenco artists and teachers are not charities - they need to earn money in return for sharing their skills and knowledge.
Not exactly my point. I am just suggesting (a second time) to the project leader, that this type of thing has been done already and if he is truely interested in learning, then he would be wise to check out what has been done already. Now if you don't want to pay for it fine, you can probably download pdf somewhere or the whole video for ANYTHING that was ever printed. You can borrow and copy from a friend, etc. I am not talking about that. My point is this forum is already a source. T. Whitely I believe already had a handbook available for free, Norman has a great site, not to meantion all the posts by knowleadgable folks like Zata or Sean in the archives, and experienced views from accomp. guitarists etc, all in the archives. And links we have found to other sites like Caf, andalucia.org, etc. Rather than "give me what you got" how about do some research first? Then you say this is what I got SO FAR, can anyone help out with more....etc
It is an admirable effort to put in the work to organize a bunch of different ideas and opinions into some sort of single resource. But before one tackles such a huge thing, he or she should revisit the path of others that have been down the road already. That is all I am suggesting.
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Date Jan. 25 2008 9:30:32
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HemeolaMan
Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago
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RE: REAL BOOK Colombianas y Fandangos (in reply to Ricardo)
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flo, ailsa, magenta everyone, THANKS!
to the dissenters:
guitarbuddah.... your faith in me is humbling. honestly, your flattery is too much.................... lol, yes i have no idea what the hell im doing. but i know how to organize, and i want to give something. you are the experts. that is why i am asking you.
this will be authentic. im not going to make up ****. you have a vote here man, the first democratically assembled flamenco book. whatever you think is wrong with other books, you make note of here. but dont just tell me its crap, fix it, show me. write a piece.
ricardo i have read chuck keyser, alot. i have studied graf martinez. i have spent days looking up stuff that would have been well spent doing school work.
the reason i wanted to do this is because peopel shouldnt have to spend valuable practice time in front of a computer screen trying to figure this **** out. we have the resources, the brainpower, the manpower and the reason to compile it all in one place.
i dont know if you have students man, but ideally if you do you could give this to them. it saves money, it conveys valuable information quickly, directly and accessably. it will cut out alot of fuss and messign around.
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Date Jan. 25 2008 13:04:48
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: REAL BOOK Colombianas y Fandangos (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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I cant belive you guys were so into beeing right and putting HemeolaMan in his place and reminding him of his place that you forghot to look at big the picture and what you might have gained out of this. If it was me , i would wait to see what someone acctualy has to offer before i say i dont want it.
Ricardo i am sure is fine, and has much of it and perhaps much of this info, no skin off his back, dosent affect him that much (depending on how he views it) but Guitarbuddah can you ? Can the rest of the Forum ? I have every single educational flamenco book ever printed, for cante, technique, by known and unknown guitarists etc. u name it i got it
I have 97 % of every affedis tab ever transcribed.
many private , unpublished lessons from cool guitarists, David Cerreduela springs to mind
I dont know..do you have all this yourself ? do you think that there is nothing in there that you might have found usefull and could learn from ? there was a world of info, anyone .ANYONE , could have found usefull
I was going to make it all available to HemeolaMan because i belived in his idea, him...hes a young guy and i wanted to encourage and inspire him rather then put him down and remind him of his place, i admired his dedication, persaverance, and hunger for knolodge, i still dont see anything bad or wrong here.
And i was doing all this on a 56 k moddem, i dont need any of the stuff, i have it allready, i wasent doing it for myself.
I would rather see people shine anyday then feel that i have to be the one to bring them down to reality, he has allready put so much work into this and you knew this.
but now theres absolute no way i want him to continue with this because i dont belive you deserve to enjoy the fruits of his hard work, which trust me, however good you think you are and however much you think you know, you would have still found a tone of usefull stuff.
I just want him to keep everything i and others gave him for himself, share with those that have encouraged him, because i think that those of you that took a dump allover his plans and work and infact reminded him of his place dont deserve the effort that he has put into it
congratulations you have stoped a genuine attempt to be of some service around here and acctualy help
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Date Jan. 25 2008 17:04:34
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HemeolaMan
Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago
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RE: REAL BOOK Colombianas y Fandangos (in reply to Florian)
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flo my man i appreciate your sentiments. i do really!
but i think they have a point. they don´t know where im at with the research, so i think i owe them an explanation so we are all on the same page. =)
guys, i am tryign to glean basic harmonies from recordings, doing my best at transcribing. i'm a busy guy, a full time student (18 credit hours) and i have a part time job. I do alot of research on those sites, but they dont give me enough solid info on one topic to make something of it without the necessary experience.
so, i thought to expediate progress, i would outsource the experience. enter you guys. the proposition had to have something that you could benefit from as well, thus the real book and the full page photo and bio.
distributing it free to all the peoples of the flamenco world seemed the best way to make it available to guys like me, who dont want to spend a million hours looking but end up having to.
it also meant maximum exposure for whoever contributed, my way of thanking you.
whether you contribute or not, i will assemble this. if not for you, then for me, and people like me. inexperienced, strapped for cash and time.
so, you can contribute, or not. your choice. but wouldn't you like to see your name in print with your fine words of wisdom in a book that will easily reach any interested soon to be flamencos?
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Date Jan. 25 2008 18:10:03
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John O.
Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany
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RE: REAL BOOK Colombianas y Fandangos (in reply to HemeolaMan)
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quote:
the reason i wanted to do this is because peopel shouldnt have to spend valuable practice time in front of a computer screen trying to figure this **** out. we have the resources, the brainpower, the manpower and the reason to compile it all in one place.
i dont know if you have students man, but ideally if you do you could give this to them. it saves money, it conveys valuable information quickly, directly and accessably. it will cut out alot of fuss and messign around.
First off, I do like this idea of yours, even if it is a more organized version of what already may be out there. I remember having SO MANY questions and being frustrated at not finding the answer. In agreement with Ricardo, I admit I didn't know where to look.
My biggest success as a teacher was after I started really using my video recorder. My teaching is completely paperless, unless I'm using the help of charts for understanding. Everything else I tape at slow and normal speed, during the lesson, while explaining. Everybody has a computer these days, I just send it to them in WMV format by mail. When they come the next week, I look in the sent messages and see what we did the last time. Students seem to really like it too.
As for learning - I didn't get nearly as much from reading as I did from doing. Flamenco has mainly been influenced by a simple, bohemian culture and can't be structured or documented easily. The best you can do is experience it over and over again until your brain knows it to be correct. It's like learning Spanish from a book but never using it - you'll maybe understand it, but you won't be able to speak it.
If you want to learn the palos, look for 100 simple falsetas to each one, learn them all, all the different possibilities in different positions on the fretboard. Find a flamenco school and accompany traditional choreographies, at first memorizing the music the teacher uses from a tape. Also do as many workshops as you possibly can - you improve very quickly without even noticing.
Eventually what seems like 1000 different things will all come together when you notice the connections and you'll be safe in compás without having to count (usually) - that's when the real fun starts
Again, the idea is great, I just wanted to point out that practical experience is where the real learning begins. I could never explain on paper the things I've learned just by doing them over and over again.
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Date Jan. 25 2008 23:52:10
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: REAL BOOK Colombianas y Fandangos (in reply to wiglebot)
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lol
you guys make me lough
its pretty straight foward, forghet the **** conversation and the i know that and i need the jurney lol
all he was going to do was take information from everysigle flamenco book out there and complie it into one, has nothing to do with what he knows or where he is lol.
the question was pretty simple, do you guys want free **** ?, **** that you might not have, infact unless you have every flamenco book ever printed , it is **** you dont have lol but i can see why where is coming from is very important to you guys , the guy that hands you free **** has to be a master himself you stick to that see who misses out in the end.
its funny the" make your request for tab" here thread is always packed but here on this thread to give you stuff he has to be a master lol you guys are reading just a touch too much into this.
it is pretty ridiculous, but hey , i really dont give a **** , i got it all
lighten up a touch and recognise a brake when its beeing handed to you, **** before i had all the books and tab i have i would have jumped at the oportunity and wouldnt have cared if it came from Osama.
the question more or less is is : DO you want free **** ? "
and your answer is " But are you qulified ?"
nobody has ever offered to do this much for you to this extent before yet you asking for the resume lol.
sorry but it amuses the **** out of me
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Date Jan. 26 2008 5:32:35
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