navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel

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paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel

I'm looking to move up from my CG171SF and think I've narrowed down my options to the following:

Francisco Navarro Student Flamenco (cheaper than the others)
Loriente Carmen (lacquer)
Otto Vowinkel 2AF

The Carmen and 2AF are both used (nearly the same price), while the Navarro is new. I'd like to find a used Navarro Concert model, but no such luck yet.

So, here's my questions:
1) are these three instruments enough of an improvement over the 171SF to warrant the cost/effort?
2) how do the three compare?
3) is the Navarro concert model more what i should be considering?

thanks

Paul

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2011 18:38:08

VietFlamenco

Posts: 140
Joined: Aug. 1 2010

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

To be honest, I really don't think any of those guitars are worth the upgrade from the CG1671SF. They're only slightly better, not exponentially better. I was in your shoes not too long ago and ended up with a Francisco Navarro student model. I feel i've grown out of it already, although it's still a decent guitar for a 1st year or 2nd year flamenco student.

The FN student model are not made by Francisco but rather other people in his shop. You're taking a chance if you go with this model. I suggest you save your money and wait until you have 2k to buy the top end Navarro or buy a good used guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2011 21:31:53

Tomrocker

Posts: 404
Joined: Apr. 18 2010
From: Italy

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

The CG171SF is decent if you are not going with a higher budget. I agree with VietFlamenco. I'd prefer to safe the money for something that worth.. If you are not in a hurry, i mean if you can wait for a while, i advice you to place an order to a respectable luthier like Andres Eliasson for Example and get a special piece of wood, and if you wanna a guitar now and this is the budget you are in, then i advice you to try these guitars and listen to its sound buy yourself then decide which one you like best. If you can't try it physically cuz of the unavailability, try to search for some videos with these guitars and listen how it sounds. IMO, if i were in your shoes and i have no chance of all the choices that i mentioned, i'd then go straight ahead for a FN Student Model.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2011 22:28:09

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

you can probably get a new concert model navarro for a really good price if you order from ron hudson at memorial music in texas.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2011 22:30:42

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to at_leo_87)

Shhh

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2011 22:50:15

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to cRobson12)

quote:

Shhh

ok i changed it.

anyways. im really happy with my concert model navarro. it's a huge step up from my old c3f and my old c3f was better than any other factory guitar center flamenco guitar i've played.

ive compared my guitar to some pretty high end stuff, even to some guitars by legendary makers and i pretty much always like mine more.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 25 2011 23:25:08

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to at_leo_87)

GOOD.

Hey Anthony I have always wondered, is your Navarro orange or yellow? It seems to change colour like a chameleon everytime you upload a new video

I have often times wanted to give up on trying all the guitars I can get my hands on and just buy the Navarro, but currently I may be having a really sweet deal with a guitar by an awesome dude here at the forum. So we will see if I join the Navarro club later

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2011 0:26:37

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

lol. it's because of the lighting. it's normally somewhere in between. kind of like michael jackson.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2011 0:39:01

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

oh yeah.. i tried a loriente in singapore and it sounded really really good.. I have to say that it's comparable to what the feel of my old anders would be like..
I tried another loriente in sydney a few weeks back and that one sounded like sheeeet... i wouldn't trade my yamaha for it..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2011 1:48:26

VietFlamenco

Posts: 140
Joined: Aug. 1 2010

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to HolyEvil)

I think your best bet in not to get a navarro, lorient or vowinkel, but to order of those guitars guitars made under the Andalusian sun. The Andalusian guitars from Professor Diaz are endorsed by Paco. They are the best guitars at any price range. You can't go wrong!

Okay now lets get 5 pages in this thread.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2011 1:56:21

cRobson12

Posts: 288
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to VietFlamenco)

Viet, shutup

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2011 2:17:50

aleksi

Posts: 528
Joined: Nov. 10 2008
From: Helsinki, Finland

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

I can recommend the Navarro student model. I tried CG171SF in my local music store and for me its heavy as hell and it costs 450€ so I dont consider to be a very good guitar for the money. For americans I gues its different if you can get one cheaply. My Navarro student just feels and sounds much better. If they are made by apprentices I gues the quality varies but still everybody who have bought them seem to be very satisfyed with their guitars. You can find sound samples of them here at foro if you do a search.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 26 2011 18:35:38

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Pricewise the Loriente is a good deal for the money:
https://www.lasonanta.eu/en/guitarras-flamencas/flamenco-guitar-loriente-carmen-blanca-2008.html

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2011 8:52:43

paul.troutfisher

Posts: 161
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Danville, CA

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Guys, thanks for the candid responses. Kind of what I expected/feared :)

Think I'll wait a bit longer. I'm building my first guitar, following the Roy Courtnall's book. Well, at least I have the Solera done. But I worry that with three kids, wife, dog, two horses, and various other wife scheduled furniture projects that I'll never get it done. I actually bet my 16 year old daughter that I'd finish before she graduated (she's a junior). I'm now thinking that I must have meant graduated from college!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 27 2011 14:38:06

Ghassan

Posts: 21
Joined: Aug. 28 2011

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

Hi..
I am a new member I wish to accept me as a friend
I am communication engineer from Iraq.
I play flamenco about 4 years and become really good player but without a real guitar! since I am in Iraq I can't get any flamenco guitar even the Yamaha because it is not available in Iraq!
I made about 2,000$ (200 less or more) and I want to purchase a real Negra flamenco guitar
I am searching the internet every day, I found these models and I don’t really know if they are worth the 2K or I can get better one for this money!

Loriente "Carmen" SP/IN (http://www.guitarsalon.com/p3651-loriente-carmen-spin.html)
And this collection in the page
http://www.guitarsalon.com/products.php?viewmode=browse&perpage=40&sortby=-3&keywords=TYPE+%26+HIT+ENTER+TO+SEARCH+WITHIN+FLAMENCO&bracket=1&categoryid=3

I would appreciate any help
I have the ability to pay online from here.
Best regards.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2011 16:43:53

RTC

Posts: 667
Joined: Aug. 20 2008
From: DFW Area, Texas

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

You better set aside sometime to wet a line, trout fiahing has been great. Leave the guitar building for the cold winter days.

Good Luck!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2011 17:10:44

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: navarro vs. lorient vs. vowinkel (in reply to paul.troutfisher)

I think the answer depends on your playing level. If you have reached the intermediate stage but not yet advanced, then I think you need something better than the 171, or else you will retard your progress, but a luthier guitar at this point would not be justified.

On the other hand, if you are advanced, then I would agree with some others here that you would be better off saving up for a luthier guitar.

If the former, then to answer your question, the Loriente Carmen is a big step up from the 171, and especially if you can get a really good used one for a good price, I think you would do well going that way. It's far better than the Navarro student guitars, which are decent, but not in the same category as the Loriente Carmen.

Ramon

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 28 2011 21:18:04