Bridge length vs position of the braces

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kominak

Posts: 135
Joined: Apr. 20 2010

Bridge length vs position of the braces

Is there any connection between the length of the bridge and the placement of the braces?
I mean this:

What is your design? Do you make the length of the bridge the same regardless of the bracing pattern or is there some rule about the bridge overlapping the braces (braces 2 and 6 in my 7-strut design)?

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Martin Kominak
Slovakia

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 19 2011 8:27:08

Gimar Yestra

Posts: 298
Joined: Jan. 19 2011
From: The Netherlands

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

In theory, having the braces run under the bridge would give the bridge more stability, also this way the vibrations from the strings will the tranfered from the bridge to the braces more directly.

then again thats theory, I've never experienced with this myself though.
Im doing the same thing on my first blanca, it seems like the obvious way to go for some reason.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 19 2011 12:04:57

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

quote:

Is there any connection between the length of the bridge and the placement of the braces?

Yes. Also notice where the ends of the tie block lie...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2011 22:36:12

estebanana

Posts: 9367
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

That is to keep the ends of the bridge supported. It's good carpentry, it keeps ripples out of the top where the bridge ends.

The braces run under the bridge ends to keep that area from puckering up or down when you glue the bridge on top of it. If you ever see a guitar with the dimples or puckering at the ends of the bridge check and see where the braces are. Probably not under the bridge.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2011 22:46:05

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

Some Granada makers use a 5 piece system that has only 3 braces under the bridge, with the ones adjacent to the center brace landing somewhere in the middle of bridge wings. But most bracing systems have the 5 under the bridge.
That's what I couldn't tell from Anders' pic of his new bracing, if he had the outer 2 braces outside of the bridge or not.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2011 23:03:11

estebanana

Posts: 9367
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

with the ones adjacent to the center brace landing somewhere in the middle of bridge wings.

Then think about the angle of the brace and how much it crosses the grain at a diagonal. Does the fan extend beyond the brdge at its terminal end? Does it stiffen the top across the grain a little or a lot? And how thick is the top in the center?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2011 23:24:39

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

Also the dimensions of the bridge patch if one is used.

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2011 23:45:16

estebanana

Posts: 9367
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

Or the rare, but very effective theremin graft.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 0:14:06

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

I only have 3 braces under the bridge.

Its an old and well tested idea.

Some asymetrical classical bracing systems have 4 braces under the bridge.
When building with 7 braces, I place them more or less like on the photo (3 inside the tieblock, 2 inside the bridge wings and 2 outside.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 7:21:43

kominak

Posts: 135
Joined: Apr. 20 2010

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

Thanks a lot for the input.
So as I understand it the wings should go over the braces 2 and 6 (to add stability), but the tie block should end before reaching braces 3 and 5 (to let the top move more freely perhaps or add bass response?)?
Here are some pictures of Torres, Reyes and Barbero-styled bracing:
Bracing patterns
(scroll to the bottom)

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Martin Kominak
Slovakia

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 9:25:46

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

There are no rules!!!!!
What works for you is good and correct.
As I just wrote, my new 5 piece abanico does not follow your ideas of rules. Nor do some of the most famous classical bracing systems.

I know that for some people, it seems scary when there are no fixed ideas or rules to follow. Then you have to find out yourself... I personally like that. It makes me use my senses and not my brain and building flamenco guitars and boats is all about that.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 15:15:30

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

I'm with Anders, there are no rules, just as many 5 fans have been made with three as with 5 under the bridge. Here is a classical by Paulino Bernabe, count the fans under the bridge on this one, you will only need one finger. I don't remember hearing any horror stories about his guitars self destructing.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 16:26:12

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

Here is a 7 fan Conde from 1988 that comes close but doesn't actually have 5 fans under the bridge and with no bridge strap to boot.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 16:42:10

estebanana

Posts: 9367
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to kominak)

You guys can be so literal. jeez.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 17:09:01

kominak

Posts: 135
Joined: Apr. 20 2010

RE: Bridge length vs position of the... (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

There are no rules!!!!!

I agree, but when you're just starting out (this is my first build) I think it's safer to stick to the proven principles. It will encourage me to build more if this first one will turn out to be a playable instrument with a decent sound.
I'm sure there'll be enough experiments in the years to come :)

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Martin Kominak
Slovakia

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 21 2011 19:26:47