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The "other" Palos
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stealthanugrah
Posts: 12
Joined: Dec. 4 2010
From: NYC Queens, to be exact
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The "other" Palos
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Just curious, Since Americans like are busy learning the "big 5" palos, solea, alegrias, bulerias, siguiriyas, and tangos, what's happening to all the other forms? I know that Flamenco is supposed to be a "global" art in the sense of learning how to play all the palos. So my question is, are these palos dying out in Spain? Here's a whole list of palos from Wikipedia just to name a few. I've heard there used to be about 50 different ones. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palo_(flamenco) I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying, if not I'll elaborate soon!
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Date Dec. 7 2010 18:51:47
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Elie
Posts: 1837
Joined: Apr. 10 2010
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RE: The "other" Palos (in reply to stealthanugrah)
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that link is Interesting ? ? marianas, bambera, vidalitas, cartageneras, levantica ? ? what the hell are these ? IMO I think the maestros play a major role in this case I mean ( as u mentioned ) solea, alegrias, bulerias, siguiriyas, and tangos are most played .. maybe because great players like paco, vicente, gerardo etc ..... spotted the light on them mainly take a look at diego's new ablum orate it has 4 bulerias , 1 soleas , 1 tango , 1 seguiriya , 1 rondena ... so I guess other palos are less played even in spain
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Date Dec. 7 2010 19:04:16
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Paul Magnussen
Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)
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RE: The "other" Palos (in reply to Elie)
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All of these are now pretty rare, as you say: Marianas: Hispavox Antología del cante flamenco, Vol.2 Orfón Antología del cante flamenco, Vol.II Ramón de Algeciras, Grandes guitarras del flamenco Gran antología flamenca, Vol. 4 Sabicas, Gypsy Flamenco. Bamberas: Paco Peña, Misa Flamenca Gran antología flamenca, Vol. 4 Medio siglo de cante flamenco, Vols. 2 & 4; Fosforito, Vol. 1. Cartegeneras: Camarón & Paco, Canastera Fosforito Vol. 1. Couldn't find the other two.
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Date Dec. 7 2010 19:48:39
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veet
Posts: 231
Joined: Nov. 29 2004
From: L.A.
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RE: The "other" Palos (in reply to Elie)
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quote:
like tonás, debla, carceleras, trilla, romeras, mirabrás tonás, debla, trilla, and sometimes carceleras are sung unaccompanied, so the guitar parts are easy... There was 6 or 8 years ago at the Bienal a release called the Guia Telematica that gave samples of 102 forms. A lot are subgrouped, especially the fandangos. Also the cantinas family which includes alegrias, caracoles, mirabras, romeras, rosas, etc.
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Date Dec. 7 2010 20:33:56
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Ramon Amira
Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City
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RE: The "other" Palos (in reply to stealthanugrah)
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quote:
Since Americans like are busy learning the "big 5" palos, solea, alegrias, bulerias, siguiriyas, and tangos, what's happening to all the other forms? I don't know what you mean. Except for a beginner, I don't know a single serious flamenco guitarist who in addition to those five doesn't at least also play Granadinas, Malaguenas, Tarantas, Tientos, Farruca, Sevillanas, Zapateado, Peteneras . . . . .
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Date Dec. 8 2010 0:00:27
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NormanKliman
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007
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RE: The "other" Palos (in reply to stealthanugrah)
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quote:
Since Americans like are busy learning the "big 5" palos, solea, alegrias, bulerias, siguiriyas, and tangos, what's happening to all the other forms? Why Americans? quote:
are these palos dying out in Spain? No. What are dying out are some of the conditions that allow for natural development of the art form (parties). quote:
but there's still a whole bunch of others right? Did you see the list? The most common today are soleá, siguiriya, bulería, cantiña, tango, tiento, malagueña, granaína, taranta and fandango. quote:
There was 6 or 8 years ago at the Bienal a release called the Guia Telematica that gave samples of 102 forms. Might be this: http://flun.cica.es/web/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=16 quote:
All of these are now pretty rare Nothing rare about cartageneras. Still the most common cante minero. The classic letra for one of the two cartageneras that everyone's heard is "Los pícaros tartaneros." Camarón and lots of others have recorded it. quote:
I came across palos I've never ever heard of , like tonás, debla, carceleras, trilla, romeras, mirabrás etc .... The experts are saying that the group of cantes is called tonás or martinetes and the debla is one of them but trilla and carcelera are different, maybe closer to folklore than flamenco (recordings by Tenazas, Bernardo el de los Lobitos and Fernando de La Morena). quote:
And I'm not counting ones like romeras, mirabrás, cabales, etc., which most guitarists would know how to accompany in but I think are too similar to others in their family to be counted as completely separate palos. Yeah, the names of the styles are all about cante, and the guitar is dealing with the group of cantes of each style. So romeras would be another alegría or cantiña, cabales would be siguiriya in a major key, etc. quote:
Wel, in Spain it looks like they only play Bulerias, Tangos and if you are lucky Fandangos..... Flamenco isn't popular in most of northern Spain but it's still going strong in the rest of the country.
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Date Dec. 8 2010 9:26:55
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Ricardo
Posts: 14862
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: The "other" Palos (in reply to stealthanugrah)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stealthanugrah This is all sooo sad! Great forms that are just beautiful on the guitar like Rodena (Ramon Montoya), Zambra, Granadinas, and Zapateado are dying... this is soo sadd and well I guess it's modern flamenco and us guiri's to blame, haha Are you talking guitar, or cante? At first I thought you implied americans meaning dancers and guitarists. The list is of cante's, and a huge umbrella of one guitar style could cover a bunch of similar cantes. For example all the cante de levante or cante de la mina might be able to be accompanied in just one key, por 'taranta" in terms of guitar. All the cantiñas accomp. in C major, etc.... If you do mean guitar forms then you are just ill informed. expand your record collection. Modern guitarists have performed all in that short list. Tomatito even recorded Don Ramon's falsetas on "Guitarra Gitana". Jesus del Rosaria has done Zambra, Vicente has fantastic Zapateado on Vivencias, and there are tons of great modern Granainas to check out, especially Nunez and Vicente. It is becoming harder to find "complete" cantaors, or true masters like existed in the past. The younger generations are not mastering the song forms as much as guitar or dance IMO. Still, if you do look at the best singers from history, many of then specialized in only a few palos, or stuck with just the palos from their home town or region. Might have been why they were so much better back then, because they did not try to sing EVERY palo instead focused on a few they could truly master. Ricardo
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Date Dec. 8 2010 16:46:19
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