What defines the identity of a performance? Read my explanation under the poll before voting pls...

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

[Poll]

What defines the identity of a performance? Read my explanation under the poll before voting pls...

It is a mixed bulerias. I would not relate it to one specific piece.

45% (5)

I would call it andalucian aire because the intro was takenfrom there.

9% (1)

I would call it flamenco olé coz the majority was derived from it.

9% (1)

I would relate it to the song of the singer. Cante is most important.

36% (4)

Total Votes : 11

(last vote on : Dec. 22 2009 10:54:27)

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

What defines the identity of a perfo...

Just an example that made me thinking.

Here the example of a TV-performance of Sabicas.

Sabicas performs together with a singer.
2 falsetas (around 16 seconds) from the composition "andalucian aire" (just to keep it abstract..) , and all the rest of the video were singing and falsetas from the composition "flamenco olé". (singing 3 min, falsetas from flamenco olé 4min)

The first 6 seconds intro was the intro of "andalucian aire".

So.. because Im unsure I want to ask you how you would call the bulerias performance.

Finally a nice chance to test the poll tool!

Im curious if anybody takes the poll.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 0:53:43

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin)

well, thats interesting.
i would vote for mixed bulerias, but then again, you have to call it something more specific. no?

if someone would have asked sabicas, what the name of this piece is, what would have HE answered?

i think he would start to explain everything, almost like doits explanation to the interviewer and leave it to others to name the piece ?

hmm......

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 3:21:19

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin)

Doitsujin describes a performance like he has a stick up his ass!

_____________________________

Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 6:57:32

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Ramon Amira)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 7:53:24

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

Here the example of a TV-performance

Where?

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 7:57:45

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

he has a stick up his ass!

Any particular reason this “image” is so recurrent in your posts, Prom?

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 8:37:35

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to gj Michelob)

It only recurs in reply to, and as an allusion to, Doitsujin's crude comment that "Paco Pena plays as though he has a stick up his ass."

_____________________________

Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 8:41:58

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Ramon Amira)

quote:

It only recurs in reply to, and as an allusion to, Doitsujin's crude comment that "Paco Pena plays as though he has a stick up his ass."

_____________________________

gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 8:49:29

Arash

Posts: 4495
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin)

ok, i think if anybody would like to fight back and push a stick up someone elses a$s, please go to the modern vs tradition or "what do you think of" thread and do that, as those threads are the best places for bumf....g anyway.

but don't contaminate other threads

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 9:08:00

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin)

I also think it would get no name when it is a mixed bulerias. But when a famous tocaor like Sabicas or Paco de Lucia would play the majority of the time and use his flasetas one may call it as the composition where most of the falsetas come from. Maybe it depends also on how important a guitarist is. Or the singer.

quote:

quote:Doitsujin
Here the example of a TV-performance
quote: edguerin
Where?

Its an abstract example.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 16:03:49

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

original: Prominent Critic
"Paco Pena plays as though he has a stick up his ass."

So you finally changed youre mind. Fine. What in particular makes you think Paco Pena has a stick up his ass?

As you see I didnt quote you correctly, as you did with me. I never wrote what you are telling there.. Read more carefully. But this is topic of another thread. I wont argue here anymore.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 16:12:57

Ricardo

Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin)

I talked about this a lot before. Even with cante, there might be a lot of specific things but you can't title a performance with EVERYTHING that was played or sang, it would be ridiculous. But it IS important for aficionados to either know, or learn, what and where each one of those things came from originally. That is the beauty of both improvising in flamenco, and being a good aficionado to recognize what is going on.

"mixed bulerias" would be my vote, but actually "bulerias" would be enough for me.

Here is an example. Guitar plays Paco's Granaina, and later solea, as intros, singer sings Alegrias and fandangos....but the title is "milonga".

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 16:48:57

cathulu

Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Arash)

What? That was LOL funny s**t! I almost spilled my beer! But I agree, it probably is time to change the channel. We all can have sticks up our bummys on occasion. That is what I have learned!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 19:51:14

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin)

well, if it wasn't for cd's, these falsetas wouldn't even have a name or a place of origin. plus, i never look at track names. so i never really know what comes from where, just who plays it. so mixed bulerias for me.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 22:41:12

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: What defines the identity of a p... (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

I would relate it to the song of the singer. Cante is most important

Not because cante is the most important, but Sabicas wouldn't have played a few very happy falsetta's when the cante is about that you have lost a dear family member.
It's like watching Dracula with Madonna, it just doesn't fit.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 21 2009 23:17:10