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Posts: 16013
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Toccata and recitative (in reply to devilhand)
Interesting observations, however there is nuance.
Recitative: No, it is not like cante for these reasons. 1. It is not poetry, it is text that is barely melodic designed to connect the actual real poetic songs to form an actual story. So there is not syllabic structure nor rhyme scheme in the letras. 2. Exposition to tell a story seems related but the idea with recitative is that the text all relates to the SAME STORY. Cante letras are self contained stories in only a few lines of verse. No letra is related to any other, even in one palo. If it is the rare case that two poems seem to relate to each other, it might be better viewed as ONE letra all together. There is imposition or interpretation of "songs" called "cuple", but to cantores this is understood as not traditional cante, but rather they use the compas of the song form to interpret special songs from outside the genre (like Mexican rancheros or Portuguese fado, etc.). And of course there are special cases such as Garcia Lorca poetry that has been adapted to cante. But again, "poetry" is not recitative.
Toccata: Andalusian cadence by definition has parallel 5ths and octaves. You are hearing the bass line only. D-C-Bb-A. The actual chords are Bb/D, Am/C, Gm/Bb, and A final. It has the same character but technically he is avoiding parallel 5ths and octaves with those inversions. Again, this situation goes back to the voice leading rules of the renaissance hanging on through the baroque and classical period.
Claude Worms makes the opposite suggestion, i.e. that flamenco letras are a bit like arias, i.e. a singer uses extravagant vocal technique to express the emotion that the character is feeling at that moment. His argument for the relevance of this is that mid-19th century variety shows would include flamenco acts and, also, opera singers doing popular arias. Naturally, the flamencos, seeing how well-paid and popular the aria singers were, did what all musicians do and stole/copied/imitated/adapted what they could.
Worms isn’t a fool and knows that there is no simple origin story for flamenco. This is just one part of a bigger story he wants to tell about flamenco developing through a back-and-forth between elite music and low-rent music.
Recitative: No, it is not like cante for these reasons. 1. It is not poetry, it is text that is barely melodic designed to connect the actual real poetic songs to form an actual story. So there is not syllabic structure nor rhyme scheme in the letras.
Traditionally flamenco cante is raw. I always thought the poetization of flamenco cante started in the 19th century.
Claude Worms makes the opposite suggestion, i.e. that flamenco letras are a bit like arias, i.e. a singer uses extravagant vocal technique to express the emotion that the character is feeling at that moment. His argument for the relevance of this is that mid-19th century variety shows would include flamenco acts and, also, opera singers doing popular arias. Naturally, the flamencos, seeing how well-paid and popular the aria singers were, did what all musicians do and stole/copied/imitated/adapted what they could.
Ok, well some more nuance here. “Opposite suggestion” to my comment or devilhand’s? The reason is that “aria” in general are the SONGS I was talking about that are connected by the recitatives. These are verse type songs rather than prose, (prose which is what Devilhand was suggesting was “like cante and its accompaniment”, and I took issue with this). I would agree that cante being song FORMS, are closer in spirit to the arias compared to the recitatives. However, again, the arias will be the music telling the story and are therefore connected via the libretto or overarching text of the musical theatre piece or opera. We would have to say that arias are again different than cantes in this regard, however, there are concert arias and insertion arias which function as stand alone songs or pieces that can be performed to show off the singer’s abilities, and might not have anything to do with the full theatre or opera show, but function to highlight a famous vocal actor of one of the characters.
If Worms wanted to say the operatic Zarzuelas were influential on cantaores in the mid to late 19th century, I would say ok, but not because they “stole/copied/imitated/adapted” arias, rather, the zarzuelas were likely inspired by/borrowing from the popular flamenco culture and other folk song and dance that might have been from various regions, such as fandangos, seguidilla from La Mancha, jota from the north etc. C. Oudrid as published for guitar by Damas was an interesting example where I am seeing cante mineros creeping in to the Rondeña of the theatre piece, or orchestral work, whatever it was (academic music as Castro calls it). So perhaps an idea to feature a cantaor via some specific zarzuela or whatever that was famous, I could see that….but a big push back I must give is that the cante is based on SONG FORMS that seem to be (and it is argued about now and vague to most scholars) completely set already (I am basing this on Ocon, Estebañez Calderon, etc.). Song forms are NOT STAND ALONE SONGS, they incorporate a mixture of unrelated lyric poems, which is quite different than even stand alone arias or zarzuelas numbers, etc. “Madrigal” as a genre is close to a formal structure, but a “Romanesca” is much closer to the concept of a palo via its specific elements.
Sure there are SOME cantes that have a limited lyric set and perhaps even could be traced to such an origin (have not yet seen that specifically done with an aria, and Worms or anybody else claiming this needs to show the correlation), but the MAIN palos we consider cante today (Solea, siguiriyas, martinetes, Fandango, malaguena, cante mineros etc.) are very different than that. Only we have vocal delivery in some cases “extravagant vocal technique” is not a good way to put it, but it superficially has commonality with opera and dramatic theatre singing (I give him that while admitting there is nuance in technique to be hashed out, like Planeta and Filo arguing in real time in 1838 before a juerga). Same deal with Pakistani Sufi, Arabic, Greek/Turkish etc., singing.
quote:
Worms isn’t a fool and knows that there is no simple origin story for flamenco. This is just one part of a bigger story he wants to tell about flamenco developing through a back-and-forth between elite music and low-rent music.
I am not calling anyone “a fool”, however I wonder if he sings seriously or at all. It is a superficial observation, at least the way you put it earlier about technique. While I admit the back and forth between what flamencologists call “academic” music, and our flamenco traditional palos was certainly there to be seen in the historic records, I still feel VERY strongly that the investigators are not emphasizing the FORMAL STRUCTURE of the palos as they should, and allowing too many unimportant superficial aesthetics stand in as an “explanation” for this supposed “not simple origin story” for flamenco. In fact it is the formal structure and it’s nonsensical arrival from some hypothetical “cultural soup bowl” that pours out these very involved and rigid forms, practices and traditions that take decades to master, that lead me to do some deep investigations. At this point (call ME the “fool” if you want) I am convinced the origin story is actually VERY simple, but so far nobody has recognized what I feel are the origins of the forms (cante melodies, harmonies, poetic structures, etc.). In case you missed it I provided some correlations and evidence in this thread that even intrigued Romerito (of all people):
Posts: 16013
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Toccata and recitative (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
Traditionally flamenco cante is raw. I always thought the poetization of flamenco cante started in the 19th century.
Demofilo is the first to compile cante letras in the 1880s for Siguiriyas Soleá Fandango etc. One I found correlates to the Ocon Soledad (1860s), and two in George Borrow (collected around 1838 published later). If we make an assumption that some of these are part of the curious collection of “los del Aficion”, who had been active 50 years prior, and Ocon assertion that many of these collected songs originate at the turn of the century or “the end of the previous”, then it is looking like the poetry used for cante can be traced to at least the late 18th century. Castro Buendia admitted in his dissertation that some scholars have indeed correlated the Borrow letras to Demofilo (wish I had known them before I went looking), and perhaps some others of Demofilo to the 18th century. I feel it is a safe assumption that these preserved letras might be tied to song form structures, if not exact melodies, rather than extracted from UNRELATED MUSIC altogether. I have found the 1628 Briseño letra that relates to Serrana and Cielito lindo preserved by Mexican Indians, so perhaps we can even push it back further (17th century or even earlier).
Opposite to Devilhand’s. I don’t think Worms is arguing that specific music (melodies, harmonic ideas, forms, conventions) get borrowed from opera. It’s more like, what does this burst of song do? It does (in most cases) not advance a story. More often, it expresses a feeling about some state of affairs. So there’s a sort of aesthetic confluence. He fleshes that out a bit but I’d have to go back to his book to say how.
I think what he really wants to push back against is the idea that cante is exclusively The Song of The Outcasts, i.e. an art form developed entirely by poor and marginal people with no reference to high/posh/academic musical culture. He prefers a picture in which high and low music knew about each other and engaged somehow. And then he’s speculating a bit about what that engagement was. But (and here I’m speculating) I think he’d be happy with any version that stood up historically so long as there was that upstairs-downstairs exchange.
If there’s interest, I’ll re-read the relevant bit of his book and try to do a better job of laying it out.
I don’t think Worms is arguing that specific music (melodies, harmonic ideas, forms, conventions) get borrowed from opera. It’s more like, what does this burst of song do?
I see, Ok, yeah, that is much more general and vague to me. I get the "aesthetic confluence", but for sure it is a superficial observation. All song expressions (almost) tend to have this drama going on. A "variety show" is a bunch of drama for "your entertainment", basically.
quote:
I think what he really wants to push back against is the idea that cante is exclusively The Song of The Outcasts, i.e. an art form developed entirely by poor and marginal people with no reference to high/posh/academic musical culture. He prefers a picture in which high and low music knew about each other and engaged somehow.
While I agree with this, my personal question would be "why"? Like what is the agenda behind that push back? From a lot of what I read I get a sense of some folks pro Gitano and pro Andalú. The pro Gitano go too far with the credit given than necessary, and the others VERY WRONGLY pretend the contribution is only a singular interpretation or style. The true nuance here that few are admitting is the social situation of RACIAL MIXING, and the distinction between the TYPES of Gitano communities we are talking about in Spain. Romerito was kind enough to supply a beautiful quotation from MAIRENA's "confesiones" where he was shocked when he went to demonstrate the oldest "cante Gitano" for the patriarch of a clan in Extremadura, where he felt the oldest song would resonate (and likely he could acquire more old cante for his project from the Spanish Gipsies), and he hit a brick wall there. They did not understand his singing at all, considered it "payo" singing. His conclusion was the tradition of cante was NEITHER ANDALUSIAN NOR GYPSY in origin. And this actually aligns perfectly with my own investigations. For obvious reasons this observation of Mairena is pushed aside as a "curiosity" and nothing more, and worse, he and his work are marginalized as "racist", which I take to mean overly "pro Gitano" with regard to interpretation and creation. It is a shame really because he did great work IMO, and for him to admit the previous thing is huge as it means deep down he was a scientist discarding his own confirmation biases.
quote:
And then he’s speculating a bit about what that engagement was. But (and here I’m speculating) I think he’d be happy with any version that stood up historically so long as there was that upstairs-downstairs exchange.
Well I don't know when Worms published what you read, but Castro Buendia has addressed this in detail in his 2014 3000 page dissertation and book. Every time I find some academic music thing I double check his dissertation and there it is, at least with some honorable mention if not gone through in detail. ONE of the things that should be in there that is not I dug up and will present in the Mel Bay book vol. 3 in regards to Gaspar Sanz (and some vihuela stuff), but other than that he is very thorough. The general thing we see is this:
Andalusian folk tradition (call it flamenco or proto flamenco and include your seguidillas jotas etc.) does rub elbow with "academic" music. For the folk music we don't have a lot of what we call today "note for note transcriptions" but there is enough tid bits to address some facts about it via a timeline. The bulk of academic music is classical trained musicians publishing stuff inspired by the folk music. I call it "fakemenco", not to be derogatory but to keep it separated from those that really perfom the art forms (palos). These academics have varying degrees of understanding of the true genre, as it looks on paper. Because these works are our only lens, the bias seems to be that this material might have also influenced the folk genre, and worse, the folk genre is in a "proto developmental" state of being while this is going on. I am sorry but we can not tell that from this lens.
Over time what might superficially look like a quid pro quo between genres starts looking more like academic musicians having access to the older publications and semi plagiarizing those to present a new thing that looks like they had also been influenced by their local flamenco buddies. As my own concrete example take Garcia Lorca. No doubt he had access to Ocon for his Sevillanas and Anda Jaleo look quite similar to the much older "Seguidilla sevillana" and the "contrabandista" scores of Ocon. We get the false impression that Garcia Lorca got those songs from his contact with flamenco artists and that the academic and the folk arts somehow overlap, but I no longer see it that way. We can just trace the publication dates on scores.
Another example is in our Mel Bay volume 2 book, that my co-author Corey dug up. I was surprised as unlike the "fakemenco" coplas created by Arcas and Tarrega, there is a malagueña attributed to Tarrega that is clearly informed by a tocaor that understands cantes levantinos vs. generic fandango form. We see it in the instrumental "tercios" on the page. Turns out it is anonymous, found in a collection of stuff of the student of Tarrega and the attribution is assumed via his lessons. I don't see that honestly, it seems the student got this from a legit tocaor for cante. Otherwise Tarrega would have reflected this same knowledge elsewhere in his works.
And lots more in Castro Buendia has been specifically addressed in this regard. That Glinka mess where the copla was added 30 years later etc., happened AFTER 2014 but Kitarist cleared it up for us.
quote:
If there’s interest, I’ll re-read the relevant bit of his book and try to do a better job of laying it out.
So I am interested in Worms' opinion about the opera thing, but more so about the singing technique if that issue was addressed at all. I am already pretty certain there is no deeper musical structure thing to worry about. So anything about what he means with the "extravagant vocal technique" or whatever that is, would be interesting to hear about.
RE: Toccata and recitative (in reply to devilhand)
This is not public video, but I’ll share it here - In June - July we did a recital with a classical singer who lives in Akune. The guitar group accompanied her to sing Japanese popular songs with audience sing along. In addition the guitar group played our classical instrumental stuff and myself and my buddy Masuzaki-san accompanied our singer( trained in Austria and Italy) in the piece Stanchen by Franz Schubert. Here is the first rehearsal we got through, we ironed it out later.
But not really liking Schuberts piano accompaniment that’s usually transcribed for guitar, I simply took the chords and arranged it as a guitar duet with arpeggio and rasgueado. While it’s not a ‘song form’ but an art song with a contemporary to Schubert era structure, I was struck by how it resembled sections of flamenco palos. It’s utilizing the A Phrygian stuff we call por medio chords.
Posts: 16013
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Toccata and recitative (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
Bach’s arias …. Just saying
Yes that is different. It would be interesting to know what and when Bach material made it to spain. My understanding was Bach was totally obscure in Europe before Mendelssohn did the Matthew passion, but that hit around that time (Germany 1829, England not till 1854, so it took time to get around). Also he cut out like 10 Arias or something, to make it more "Italian style".)The Italian arias would be the popular ones in Spain more likely at the time we were discussing (Worms), and there are some anecdotal things like Silvero being Italian and Chacon having a juerga with an Italian opera guy who admitted the technique he was using would work for tenor arias.
quote:
This is not public video, but I’ll share it here -
Yes that German lieder thing is interesting. That part at 2:22, where the arpegio goes A-C#E, then F-E-D-C#, is very similar to what cante does. However it is in context of tonic D (building tension on the dominant). Sounds nice. Schubert is an exemplar on the Augmented 6 wiki page.
Even the lyric of Schubert’s ‘romance’ is flamenco like in its images telling about a situation, but not details, leaving you to image that something could go wrong at any minute:
My songs call out gently Through the night as they beseech you; Come down here into the quiet grove of trees, Beloved, come to me!
Slender tree tops whisper as they rustle In the moonlight; No hostile traitor is going to overhear, So do not be afraid, my love.
Can you hear the nightingales singing? Oh, they are beseeching you With the sweet notes of their laments, They are interceding with you on my behalf.
They can understand the longing of the breast, They are familiar with the pain of love, With their silver notes they stir Every sensitive heart.
Let your own breast be moved too, Beloved, listen to me! I am trembling as I await your response; Come, make me happy!
—
From the Bach Aria Bist du bei mir
Be thou with me and I’ll go gladly To death and on to my repose.
Ah, how my end would bring contentment, If, pressing with thy hands so lovely, Thou wouldst my faithful eyes then close
It has a sentiment like a Siguiriya or solea letra, well lots of lyrics are like that, but it’s poetry
Roughly translated into Spanish with google:
Quédate conmigo y con gusto iré a la muerte y al reposo.
¡Ah, qué contento me traería el fin, si, apretando con tus manos tan hermosas, cerraras entonces mis fieles ojos
RE: Toccata and recitative (in reply to estebanana)
I scanned the relevant pages of Worms and, at the cost of some time, tidied up the text in the hope that a machine would be able to translate it. Do not believe anything you hear about how smart these machines are. It was hopeless. So here is the French:
Esthétique du cante
Si l'on fait abstraction de la question du timbre, on constatera une similitude frappante entre les critères d'appréciation du cante flamenco et ceux du bel canto baroque d'un long XVIII° siècle, en gros de Nicola Porpora à Gioacchino Rossini: avant tout la longueur de souffle et l’ornementation mélismatique liée à la reprise variée (l'aria da capo pour le chant baroque, la répétition des motifs ou des périodes mélodiques pour le cante); mais aussi tout ce qui se rapporte au «cantabile» et au chant « spianato » (« large et lent»), dont l'équivalent flamenco serait les cantes libres affectés aux palos de type fandango (malagueñas, granaínas, cantes de mina) et ceux affectés aux polos de tempo lent a modéré (soleares, siguiriyas, tientos, etc.) : legato, portamento, messa di voce; enfin les techniques de mélange et de passage de registre. Naturellement, on ne saurait inférer une quelconque filiation de similitudes entre des esthétiques ou des langages musicaux. Par contre, nous avancerons ici l'hypothèse que le cante, dans ses aspects techniques, est la dernière résurgence en date d'une tradition ibérique de chant savant et virtuose (particulièrement vivante en Andalousie) associée à une esthétique baroque. Même s'il conviendrait d'étayer plus solidement cette théorie, ou éventuellement de la réfuter, on en peut trouver une série d'indices historiques convergents à partir de la Renaissance. Au XVI siècle, dans les Etats Pontificaux, les castrats et les cantatrices sont interdits pour le chant d'église. On a donc d'abord eu recours à des enfants pour les voix de dessus, mais les exigences croissantes des compositeurs en termes de virtuosité les ont rendus rapidement insuffisants. C'est alors qu'on engagea des falsettistes espagnols, connus comme « spagnoletti », qui, dit-on à l'époque, auraient tenu leurs techniques des maures. Le périple Espagne - Rome passait souvent par Naples, très liée à la couronne espagnole. Le règne des « spagnoletti » à Rome dura toute la seconde moitié du XVIe siècle, jusqu'a !'engagement d'un premier castrat par le pape Clément VIII en 1601. Nous perdons alors la trace des falsettistes spagnols en Italie, mais nous retrouvons Naples et les chanteurs espagnols à la fin de l’âge d'or du bel canto baroque. Manuel del Populo Vicente Garcia, ténor et compositeur né à Séville, ami de Rossini qui lui destina le rôle du comte Almaviva (« Le Barbier de Séville»}, auteur d'un hit européen (le « Polo del contrabandista » ) et grand pourvoyeur d’ « airs espagnols » très à la mode à l’époque, envoie son fils Manuel Patricio étudier à Naples auprès de l’un des derniers grands castrats, Giuseppe Aprile, qui perpétue l’école de Leonardo Leo. Manuel Patricio Garcia est l'auteur d'un Traite complet de l'art du chant (1847) qui restera longtemps une référence. Ses sœurs cadettes, Maria Malibran et Pauline Viardot-Garcia, sont des cantatrices célèbres. D'autre part, la zarzuela comme la chanson andalouse doivent beaucoup à ces techniques vocales, et l'on connait leurs liens avec les airs « pré-flamencos ». Remarquons également que la plupart des rôles des zarzuelas baroques (y compris ceux des personnages masculins) étaient écrits pour des « tiples », c'est-à-dire des cantatrices soprano, mais avec un registre étendu vers le grave - l'ambitus vocal de la plupart des cantaoras correspond précisément à celui des tiples. Les échanges musicaux entre Naples et Madrid sont intenses pendant tout le XVIIIe siècle. Nombre de musiciens mènent leur carrière entre ces deux cours, pour lesquelles ils composent des intermèdes, des cantates, des« entremeses », des zarzuelas, etc., sur des textes en italien, en napolitain et en espagnol : Leonardo Vinci, Giuseppe Petrini, Nicola Porpora, Francisco Corradini, Alessandro et Domenico Scarlatti, Jose de Nebra, Antonio Rodriguez de Hita, Pablo Esteve, Manuel Pia, Blas de Laserna, etc. Sauf à postuler que la sophistication vocale du cante aurait surgi brusquement du néant dans le dernier tiers du XIXe siècle, ii nous semble soutenable de penser qu'elle est le dernier maillon d'une longue chaine d'allers-retours (« idas y vueltas ») entre pratiques « savantes » et pratiques « populaires ». Rappelons enfin que pour la plupart des spécialistes, le plus illustre des pères fondateurs du cante se nommait Silverio Franconetti y Aguilar, né à Moron de la Frontera d'un père romain (Nicolas Franconetti Chesi) et d'une mère andalouse (Maria Concepcion Aguilar Villareal), et qu'il apprit probablement les bases de son répertoire de Maria Borrico et El Fillo - en matière de cante flamenco, les Italiens et les gitans sont des Andalous comme les autres, et vice-versa...
Dans les années 1860-1870, des intermèdes flamencos sont fréquemment au programme des théâtres andalous et madrilènes, entre les actes d'un opéra, ou entre deux zarzuelas plus courtes. Les premiers cantaores a succès ont donc côtoyé des chanteurs lyriques. Ils sont d'ailleurs souvent présentés comme des ténors ou des sopranos du « genera flamenco », et nombre d' entre eux ont un répertoire éclectique, entre chanson andalouse, tonadilla et cante. II n'est donc pas trop aventureux de penser qu'ils aient eu l'intention de créer un art vocal autochtone apte à concurrencer le chant lyrique. C'est en tout cas ainsi que l'ont entendu, brièvement, les nobles réactionnaires de vieille souche andalouse qui s'opposaient depuis le début du XIXe siècle aux velléités réformatrices de la monarchie libérale. Le combat politique impliquait des marqueurs culturels : respect des traditions séculaires contre « modernité », tauromachie d'abord, puis le flamenco, personnifies par le« gitan », trouvèrent momentanément un soutien inattendu dans les grandes familles de la noblesse terrienne. II s'agissait d'opposer une culture andalouse « authentique » a une culture cosmopolite, italianisée pour le théâtre lyrique et francisée pour la danse - d'où les parrainages d'enfants gitans par la haute noblesse conservatrice, et l'abondance des patronymes correspondants dans les familles gitanes. Qu'on se rassure, cette tentative d'instrumentalisation du cante et du baile fut éphémère. La crise économique du début des années 1860 incita les propriétaires de théâtres à baisser leurs tarifs, et le public populaire afflua effectivement à des spectacles incluant, entre autres, des musiques et des danses qui lui étaient familières. L'aristocratie, libérale ou non, et la bourgeoisie aisée firent rapidement front commun contre un adversaire prioritaire, et les autorités locales interdirent le flamenco dans les théâtres. Les artistes opérèrent alors un repli stratégique sur les cafés cantantes, qui échappaient à la censure : Silverio Franconetti fut successivement la première grande vedette flamenca sur les scènes de théâtre, puis le premier créateur d'un café cantante consacré exclusivement au flamenco (le « Café de Silverio », ou «Café de la Esca/erilla », inaugure à Séville en 1871).
Une autre parenté entre bel canto baroque et cante doit ici être développée. L'opera seria italien et la tragédie lyrique française étaient marques par l'abondance de figuralismes musicaux censes traduire des affects, qui culminent dans les airs « d’espérance », « de jalousie», « de vengeance », « de fureur », etc. qu'aucun livret digne de ce nom ne peut ignorer. De manière certes plus lâche, les aficionados lient certains polos à des états d'âme: siguiriyas tragiques ou désespérées, soleares austères ou infortunées, malagueñas élégiaques ou mélancoliques, peteneras tristes ou amères, cantiñas joyeuses (dont les bien nommées alegrías}, bulerías jubilatoires, etc. Sauf à tomber dans le lieu commun arbitraire (mineur = triste... et que faire dans ce cas du mode flamenco à tierce instable, mineure ou majeure ?}, on se gardera cependant de généraliser ces connotations entre polos et couleurs émotionnelles. D'abord parce qu'elles peuvent évoluer: avant d'être « tristes », les peteneras, dans leur forme « bailable», étaient franchement allègres; les bulerías contemporaines, surtout depuis les derniers enregistrements de Camarón de la Isla, peuvent être « tragiques ». D'autre part, parce que les modèles mélodiques en tant que tels ne renvoient à aucun affect spécifique. Les textes sont souvent plus évocateurs, mais on trouverait sans peine beaucoup de contre-exemples. C'est donc essentiellement l'interprétation qui exprime des états d'âme, et non le texte musical, ni même parfois littéraire, en lui-même. A condition de tenir compte de cette différence fondamentale - ce n'est pas la partition mais l'interprète qui prend en charge la figuration des affects - le cante nous semble bien relever d'une esthétique musicale baroque, en ce que son objectif est d'exprimer des « passions ». Le meilleur compliment qu'un aficionado peut adresser à un cantaor est d'ailleurs qu'il « transmet ». L'expressivité est donc la valeur première du cante, vers laquelle tendent toutes les techniques vocales mises en œuvre. II est possible sans trop forcer le trait de pousser plus avant le parallèle entre l'esthétique de la musique baroque et celle du flamenco, notamment pour le chant. Les œuvres classiques de la fin du XVIIIe siècle et du XIXe siècle généralement fondées, au moins implicitement, sur une progression narrative similaire à celle du roman, nommée « forme sonate » : 1) présentation d'une situation potentiellement conflictuelle (exposition de deux thèmes de caractères opposes, parfois désignés par les musicologues comme « masculin » et « féminin »); 2} péripéties (développement - transformations de tout ou partie des deux thèmes, modulations, mutations rythmiques, etc.); 3) dénouement (réexposition impliquant dans la plupart des cas le triomphe final du premier thème, « masculin »). A l’opposé de la progression narrative de la forme sonate classique, l'aria de l'opera seria baroque est une forme close, de type A/ B / A', qui explore statiquement les expressions d'une seule émotion, le déroulement du drame étant dévolu aux récitatifs. II serait d'ailleurs plus exact d'écrire qu'il s'agit d'explorer, non une émotion abstraite (si tant est qu'elle puisse exister}, mais les relations entre des personnages concrets qui la font naitre. C'est pourquoi les compositeurs du XVIIe siècle et de la première moitié du XVIIIe siècle ont élaboré des tournures musicales types connotées a des gestes théâtraux conventionnels (on parle d'ailleurs couramment de « gestes musicaux »}, dont I' ensemble et !'articulation constituent une véritable rhétorique, revendiquée comme telle, et dont la codification est familière au public autant qu'aux compositeurs et aux musiciens. L'expression « stile rappresentativo », qui apparait au début du XVIIe siècle, est par lui-même révélateur de l'ascendance théâtrale des arias baroques - et des formes instrumentales qui en sont issues, la suite de danses par exemple. Des lors, il est logique que le texte ne soit pas narratif, et qu'il soit court. Quelques vers suffisent à générer plusieurs minutes de musique, et la reprise variée (A') du thème mélodique de la section A et de son texte consiste à explorer les nuances de l'émotion« représentée » par l'aria, là encore au moyen de figures codées (mélismes, diminutions, etc.) dont la virtuosité est partie prenante. Les cantes ont les mêmes caractères généraux, notamment la clôture statique de la forme, la reprise variée, (mais pas forcément sur une structure tripartite - cf. supra) la brièveté et le parti-pris non narratif des textes. Le cante, comme la musique instrumentale qui en est partiellement issue (le toque), pourrait être considéré comme un stile rappresentativo andalou, dont les gestes musicaux et des rhétoriques étaient familiers à la fois aux artistes et au public lors de sa formation et du premier développement de son répertoire (fin du XIXe siècle et début du XXe siècle). Cette affirmation pose en outre la question de la réception et de la perception ultérieures du cante, plus d'un siècle après sa t plus encore par des publics étrangers à sa culture d' origine. Le « marquage» («marcaje ») du chant, par lequel les bailaores figurent le cante, musique et texte, en temps réel est en tout cas une illustration frappante d'une telle conception rhétorique de la performance. II est curieux de constater que des sainètes musicales très en vogue dans les années 1940-1960, les « zambras escenicas » (avec orchestre et/ou piano, guitare et chant) reprennent en format de poche le couple récitatif / aria de I'opera seria et de la zarzuela du XVIIe siècle. Souvent plus ou mains théâtralisées et interprétées en duo, ces zambras sont basées sur de courts scenarios et alternent des cuples (chansons de variétés) narratifs qui font progresser l'action et des cantes - en général fandangos, tientos ou soleares - qui l'interrompent pour figurer les affects de l'un ou l'autre des personnages. On en trouvera des exemples célèbres dans les zambras de Manalo Caracol, en solo(« La Niña de Fuego »,«Romance de Juan de Osuna», « Agua en et coco», « La Salvaora », « Carce/ero, Carcelero », etc.) ou en duo avec Lola Flores(« Embrujo »,«La Niña de la venta », etc.).
For what it's worth I did a right click in a google browser then 'translate selection to english'. Thank you for posting.
"Leaving aside the question of timbre, we will note a striking similarity between the criteria for appreciating cante flamenco and those of baroque bel canto of a long 18th century, broadly speaking from Nicola Porpora to Gioacchino Rossini: above all the length of breath and the melismatic ornamentation linked to the varied reprise (the aria da capo for baroque song, the repetition of motifs or melodic periods for cante); but also everything related to "cantabile" and "spianato" ("wide and slow") singing, whose flamenco equivalent would be the cantes libres assigned to palos of the fandango type (malagueñas, granaínas, cantes de mina) and those assigned to polos of slow to moderate tempo (soleares, siguiriyas, tientos, etc.): legato, portamento, messa di voce; finally the techniques of mixing and register passage. Naturally, one cannot infer any similarity between aesthetics or musical languages. On the other hand, we will put forward here the hypothesis that cante, in its technical aspects, is the latest resurgence of an Iberian tradition of learned and virtuoso singing (particularly alive in Andalusia) associated with a Baroque aesthetic. Even if it would be appropriate to support this theory more solidly, or possibly refute it, one can find a series of convergent historical clues from the Renaissance onwards. In the 16th century, in the Papal States, castrati and singers were banned from church singing. Therefore, children were initially used for the upper voices, but the increasing demands of composers in terms of virtuosity quickly made them insufficient. It was then that Spanish falsettists, known as "spagnoletti", were hired, who, it was said at the time, had inherited their techniques from the Moors. The Spain-Rome journey often passed through Naples, which was closely linked to the Spanish crown. The reign of the "spagnoletti" in Rome lasted throughout the second half of the 16th century, until the first castrato was hired by Pope Clement VIII in 1601. We then lose track of Spanish falsettists in Italy, but we find Naples and Spanish singers again at the end of the golden age of Baroque bel canto. Manuel del Populo Vicente Garcia, tenor and composer born in Seville, friend of Rossini who intended for him the role of Count Almaviva ("The Barber of Seville"), author of a European hit ("Polo del contrabandista") and great purveyor of "Spanish airs" very fashionable at the time, sent his son Manuel Patricio to study in Naples with one of the last great castrati, Giuseppe Aprile, who perpetuated the school of Leonardo Leo. Manuel Patricio Garcia is the author of a Complete Treatise on the Art of Singing (1847) which will remain a reference for a long time. His younger sisters, Maria Malibran and Pauline Viardot-Garcia,are famous female singers. On the other hand, both zarzuela and Andalusian song owe a lot to these vocal techniques, and we know their links with "pre-flamenco" airs. It should also be noted that most of the roles in Baroque zarzuelas (including those of the male characters) were written for "tiples", that is, soprano singers, but with an extended register towards the lower register - the vocal range of most cantaoras corresponds precisely to that of the tiples. Musical exchanges between Naples and Madrid were intense throughout the 18th century. Many musicians pursued their careers between these two courts, for which they composed interludes, cantatas, "entremeses", zarzuelas, etc., on texts in Italian, Neapolitan and Spanish: Leonardo Vinci, Giuseppe Petrini, Nicola Porpora, Francisco Corradini, Alessandro and Domenico Scarlatti, Jose de Nebra, Antonio Rodriguez de Hita, Pablo Esteve, Manuel Pia, Blas de Laserna, etc. Unless we postulate that the vocal sophistication of cante would have suddenly emerged from nowhere in the last third of the 19th century, it seems tenable to us to think that it is the last link in a long chain of back and forth ("idas y vueltas") between "learned" and "popular" practices. Finally, let us remember that for most specialists, the most illustrious of the founding fathers of cante was called Silverio Franconetti y Aguilar, born in Moron de la Frontera to a Roman father (Nicolas Franconetti Chesi) and an Andalusian mother (Maria Concepcion Aguilar Villareal), and that he probably learned the basics of his repertoire from Maria Borrico and El Fillo - in matters of cante flamenco, Italians and gypsies are Andalusians like the others, and vice versa...It seems to us sustainable to think that it is the last link in a long chain of back-and-forths ("idas y vueltas") between "learned" and "popular" practices. Finally, let us recall that for most specialists, the most illustrious of the founding fathers of cante was called Silverio Franconetti y Aguilar, born in Moron de la Frontera to a Roman father (Nicolas Franconetti Chesi) and an Andalusian mother (Maria Concepcion Aguilar Villareal), and that he probably learned the basics of his repertoire from Maria Borrico and El Fillo - in matters of cante flamenco, Italians and gypsies are Andalusians like the others, and vice versa...It seems to us sustainable to think that it is the last link in a long chain of back-and-forths ("idas y vueltas") between "learned" and "popular" practices. Finally, let us recall that for most specialists, the most illustrious of the founding fathers of cante was called Silverio Franconetti y Aguilar, born in Moron de la Frontera to a Roman father (Nicolas Franconetti Chesi) and an Andalusian mother (Maria Concepcion Aguilar Villareal), and that he probably learned the basics of his repertoire from Maria Borrico and El Fillo - in matters of cante flamenco, Italians and gypsies are Andalusians like the others, and vice versa...
In the 1860s and 1870s, flamenco interludes were frequently featured in the programs of Andalusian and Madrid theaters, between acts of an opera, or between two shorter zarzuelas. The first successful cantaores therefore rubbed shoulders with lyric singers. They are often presented as tenors or sopranos of the "genera flamenco," and many of them had an eclectic repertoire, ranging from Andalusian song, tonadilla, and cante. It is therefore not too far-fetched to think that they intended to create an indigenous vocal art capable of competing with lyric singing. In any case, this is how the reactionary nobles of old Andalusian stock, who had been opposing the reformist tendencies of the liberal monarchy since the beginning of the 19th century, briefly understood it. The political struggle involved cultural markers: respect for age-old traditions versus "modernity," first bullfighting, then flamenco, personified by the "gypsy," temporarily found unexpected support in the great families of the landed nobility. It was a matter of opposing an "authentic" Andalusian culture to a cosmopolitan culture, Italianized for lyric theater and Frenchified for dance—hence the sponsorship of Gypsy children by the conservative high nobility, and the abundance of corresponding surnames in Gypsy families. Rest assured, this attempt to instrumentalize cante and baile was short-lived. The economic crisis of the early 1860s prompted theater owners to lower their prices, and the popular public did indeed flock to shows that included, among other things, music and dances that were familiar to them. The aristocracy, liberal or not, and the wealthy bourgeoisie quickly formed a united front against a priority adversary, and the local authorities banned flamenco from the theaters. The artists then made a strategic retreat to the cafés cantantes, which escaped censorship: Silverio Franconetti was successively the first great flamenco star on the theater stages, then the first creator of a café cantante devoted exclusively to flamenco (the "Café de Silverio", or "Café de la Esca/erilla", inaugurated in Seville in 1871).
Another relationship between baroque bel canto and cante must be developed here. Italian opera seria and French tragédie lyrique were marked by the abundance of musical figuralisms intended to convey affects, which culminate in the arias of "hope", "jealousy", "revenge", "fury", etc. that no libretto worthy of the name can ignore. In a more loose way, aficionados link certain polos to states of mind: tragic or desperate siguiriyas, austere or unfortunate soleares, elegiac or melancholic malagueñas, sad or bitter peteneras, joyful cantiñas (including the aptly named alegrías), jubilant bulerías, etc. Unless we fall into the arbitrary commonplace (minor = sad... and what to do in this case with the flamenco mode with an unstable third, minor or major?), we will however be careful not to generalize these connotations between polos and emotional colors. Firstly because they can evolve: before being "sad", the peteneras, in their "bailable" form, were frankly cheerful; contemporary bulerías, especially since the last recordings of Camarón de la Isla, can be "tragic". On the other hand, because the models melodic as such do not refer to any specific affect. The texts are often more evocative, but one could easily find many counter-examples. It is therefore essentially the interpretation that expresses states of mind, and not the musical text, or even sometimes the literary text, in itself. Provided that we take into account this fundamental difference - it is not the score but the performer who takes charge of the representation of affects - the cante seems to us to fall within a baroque musical aesthetic, in that its objective is to express "passions". The best compliment that an aficionado can pay to a cantaor is, moreover, that he "transmits". Expressiveness is therefore the primary value of the cante, towards which all the vocal techniques employed tend. It is possible without exaggerating too much to push the parallel between the aesthetics of baroque music and that of flamenco further, particularly for singing. The classical works of the late 18th and 19th centuries, generally based, at least implicitly, on a progression narrative similar to that of the novel, called "sonata form": 1) presentation of a potentially conflicting situation (exposition of two themes of opposing characters, sometimes designated by musicologists as "masculine" and "feminine"); 2} twists and turns (development - transformations of all or part of the two themes, modulations, rhythmic mutations, etc.); 3) denouement (reexposition involving in most cases the final triumph of the first, "masculine" theme). In contrast to the narrative progression of the classical sonata form,The aria of Baroque opera seria is a closed form, of the A/B/A' type, which statically explores the expressions of a single emotion, the unfolding of the drama being given over to the recitatives. It would be more accurate to write that it is a question of exploring, not an abstract emotion (if it can exist), but the relationships between concrete characters that give rise to it. This is why composers of the 17th century and the first half of the 18th century developed typical musical turns of phrase connoted with conventional theatrical gestures (we commonly speak of "musical gestures"), the ensemble and articulation of which constitute a true rhetoric, claimed as such, and whose codification is familiar to the public as much as to composers and musicians. The expression "stile rappresentativo", which appeared at the beginning of the 17th century, is in itself revealing of the theatrical ancestry of Baroque arias - and of the instrumental forms that came from them, the dance suite for example. From then on, it is logical that the text is not narrative, and that it is short. A few verses are enough to generate several minutes of music, and the varied reprise (A') of the melodic theme of section A and its text consists of exploring the nuances of the emotion "represented" by the aria, again by means of coded figures (melismas, diminutions, etc.) in which virtuosity is an integral part. The cantes have the same general characteristics, notably the static closure of the form, the varied reprise, (but not necessarily on a tripartite structure - see above) the brevity and the non-narrative bias of the texts. The cante, like the instrumental music that is partially derived from it (the toque), could be considered an Andalusian stile rappresentativo, whose musical gestures and rhetorics were familiar to both artists and audiences during its formation and the first development of its repertoire (late 19th and early 20th centuries). This statement also raises the question of the subsequent reception and perception of the cante, more than a century after its t even more so by audiences foreign to its culture of origin. The "marking" ("marcaje") of the song, by which the bailaores represent the cante, music and text, in real time is in any case a striking illustration of such a rhetorical conception of performance. It is curious to note that musical sainètes very fashionable in the 1940s-1960s, the "zambras escenicas" (with orchestra and/or piano, guitar and singing) take up in pocket format the recitative / aria pairing of the opera seria and the zarzuela of the 17th century. Often more or less theatricalized and performed as a duet,These zambras are based on short scenarios and alternate narrative cuples (pop songs) that advance the action and cantes - generally fandangos, tientos or soleares - that interrupt it to represent the affects of one or other of the characters. Famous examples can be found in the zambras of Manalo Caracol, solo ("La Niña de Fuego", "Romance de Juan de Osuna", "Agua en et coco", "La Salvaora", "Carce/ero, Carcelero", etc.) or in duet with Lola Flores ("Embrujo", "La Niña de la venta", etc.)."
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