RE: need help indentifying a guitar

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edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to FrankieTheKid)

Just my penny's worth (or farthing's?):

To me as a main-land European that looks like a "sloppy" 910 rather than 940

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2009 9:16:31

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to TANúñez)

quote:

That has to be the same guitar on ebay. What are the odds that there are two guitars like this without labels?

Tom,

Definatley the same model. Look at that strange nut detail where the bone sits on top of the headstock face plate and is not recessed. It's a very odd detail and it's on both guitars.

Jings! I know that headstock design but can't place it.
The carving detail looks machine made so I'd guess it's either a factory guitar or the detail was cut in later.

I'll have a think.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2009 10:01:28

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to Jim Opfer)

They really seem to be different guitars, beside the scratches on the headstock, which are more pronounced on Frankie's, the e-bay has rosewood pegs, while Frankie's looks like has ebony pegs. Both have Cedar tops (btw only 1st string on the e-bay guitar is wrongly set). Two identical guitars, popping out at about the same time, each deprived of its label ID..... remarkable coincidence, indeed.

The e-bay seller uses a picture of a J. Ramirez to create the deceptive association with its brand. However the headstock on such image betrays immediately the stark difference.

I suppose $800 is however probably the right value, if it isn't made with laminate woods, which does not appear to be the case.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2009 10:25:54

FrankieTheKid

Posts: 14
Joined: Jan. 7 2009

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

They really seem to be different guitars, beside the scratches on the headstock, which are more pronounced on Frankie's, the e-bay has rosewood pegs, while Frankie's looks like has ebony pegs.

same model, i'll agree. but that's not my guitar on e-bay... i'm not selling mine. e-bay seller has a very nice case though. and if he gets his selling price, i'll be a happy guy.
allow me a little secret on the pegs... promise not to tell anyone... they're neither rosewood nor ebony. they're stained. i found out trying to tune it shortly after i bought it (back before i learned about peg dope). one split on me revealing the black stain over a very light wood... still hardwood, but light. my guess is maple.

oh, and gj, i thought you bailed on me yesterday... welcome back.
i never thought i'd find this much interest :)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2009 15:42:11

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to FrankieTheKid)

quote:

oh, and gj, i thought you bailed on me yesterday... welcome back.
i never thought i'd find this much interest :)

I am sorry I gave you such impolite impression, Frankie, I really enjoyed this mistery, its scholarly twists and ironic turns. Tom and NGiorgio know a thing or two about "flamenco guitars".... i am just a ridiculously passionate amateur devoting excessive but such enjoyable time to learning about guitars.

[I am constantly travelling between east and west coast, and finally Europe. So I try to maintain a standardized working schedule to keep communications open with such unsynchronized world. I am now in SF, where I wake up at 4am and sleep at 9pm. hence certain unexplained disappearances].

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 9 2009 17:08:17

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to TANúñez)

Amalia Ramirez just confirmed that this guitar, or the one on ebay is not a Ramirez. I didn't think it was but you never know.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2009 6:48:50

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to edguerin)

Here is another Japanese made, cedar top flamenco from the 70's. This one was imported by the C. Bruno and Sons company of NYC. It appears to have laminated yellow cedar back and sides.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VENTURA-BRUNO-CLASSICAL-FLAMENCO-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR_W0QQitemZ290288229439QQihZ019QQcategoryZ118979QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 12 2009 7:18:02

FrankieTheKid

Posts: 14
Joined: Jan. 7 2009

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to edguerin)

gee, tom... nice to have connections!

ngiorgio,
that e-bay guitar doen't look much like mine after i examined the available pictures. the rosette is similar, but not the same. if you look at the original picture i first posted of the sound-hole and rosette, you can see the corner of the purple label that was removed. the label on the bruno is clearly parchment or beige.
none of the woods on my guitar are laminate either from what i can see.

so i guess mine is worth somewhere between 77 and 895 dollars?
either way, i only paid $35 for it, so i'm still ahead.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2009 9:49:24

ngiorgio

Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to FrankieTheKid)

Frankie, the guitar like yours which was listed on ebay is:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330298725881&indexURL=3&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

It did not sell. Perhaps the starting price was too high.

The other one with the C. Bruno label will definitely sell, so watch that one and you will have an idea what yours may be worth. As I mentioned, there were a few Japanese factories producing these instruments in the 1970's. That is just another example. I have seen some similar guitars sell on ebay for $400-500.

There was a dealer in California who sold guitars like these with their own label, which I think was the Wilson Company. Some Wilson guitars from that period show up occasionally. I think that yours may have had a Wilson label.

Seems like you got a good deal back then.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 13 2009 14:44:40

FrankieTheKid

Posts: 14
Joined: Jan. 7 2009

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to edguerin)

maybe jim opher might want to let us know if the headstock he was referring to (remember, the one he jings'd about) was a wilson?

just a thought.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 14 2009 5:19:30

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to gj Michelob)

quote:

Finally the 1st and 6th string should be restrung to turn clockwise, and opposite the other strings.

Why is that? I have always tuned the same as this guitar is tuned, although I have seen many tuned as you describe gj . . .

what is the reasoning?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 9:23:31

FrankieTheKid

Posts: 14
Joined: Jan. 7 2009

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to edguerin)

not that i'm an expert on the subject, but first thing i noticed when i restrung it properly was that the angle from nut to peg wasn't nearly as harsh. i'd imagine it would make bending and tremolo smoother... just a thought.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 11:15:21

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to FrankieTheKid)

quote:

but first thing i noticed when i restrung it properly was that the angle from nut to peg wasn't nearly as harsh. i'd imagine it would make bending and tremolo smoother... just a thought.

Not sure I follow that. The tension between nut and bridge will be the same if the pitch is the same, regardless of harshness of angle. The string should behave the same in playing -- maybe the harsher angle makes the string more susceptible to breaking at the nut? In 40 years playing flamenco on pegs turned this way, I never broke an E string -- plenty of D's, but never an E. And I've never had ANY string break at the nut. Always the bridge. . .

It DOES put more lateral pressure on the nut (counteracted by the other E string) -- maybe some nuts slip perpendicular to the axis of the neck as a result? Never happened to me, but I suppose it could. . .

Still baffled.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 14:03:08

FrankieTheKid

Posts: 14
Joined: Jan. 7 2009

RE: need help indentifying a guitar (in reply to edguerin)

i was thinking more or less in terms of the different nuts available for electric guitars like graphite and roller that allow the strings to move more easily. i'll be right up front... flamenco boggles my mind and blows me away. i bought the guitar a long time ago just because i liked how it looked, and it provided a completely different sound than my other "axes". i used it mostly to develop my finger picking, and i still use it because i love the sound.
like i said, i'm no expert. i'm only here to try to find out who made the guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2009 14:50:55