Help With Sabicas Alegrias Tremolo

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Aaron

Posts: 9
Joined: Oct. 14 2006

Help With Sabicas Alegrias Tremolo

I have been lurking here for years and think you guys are amazing.

I've been trying to play a tremolo section in a Sabicas Alegrias for years that has baffled me. It involves two strings, using the B string as the base line and E for the tremolo. It has been extremely difficult for me to play my normal piami tremolo on only the E and B strings. My thumb is in the way and I just can't recock my forefinger fast enough to make it smooth.

Then I watched the following video on youtube of Sabicas playing the section starting at 2:07:

.....and It just seems to me he is playing pami pami. the transcription from Faucher I have says to play it piami. I can make it sound much closer by playing pami, but I want to know if this is really how he is playing it.

So I hope someone can see that and confirm which way he is actually playing it. I also want to know if other people have this problem of playing piami tremolo on the top two strings only and how to get better at it. I have practiced slowly, with different wrist angles and different knuckle angles and It has always presented its own special problem due to the proximity of the thumb and forefinger.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2009 8:52:53

Ricardo

Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Help With Sabicas Alegrias Tremolo (in reply to Aaron)

pami

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2009 10:00:23

Aaron

Posts: 9
Joined: Oct. 14 2006

RE: Help With Sabicas Alegrias Tremolo (in reply to Ricardo)

Lesson re-re-re-re-re-re and re-learned - don't rely on transcriptions.

What a cheater that Sabicas

pami is too easy.

I am curious, do you have problems playing a longer sequence of piami on the top two strings? I have never gotten the hang of that. But you never see people spending too much time with their thumb on the B string with tremolo anyways.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2009 6:20:47

Ricardo

Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Help With Sabicas Alegrias Tremolo (in reply to Aaron)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aaron

Lesson re-re-re-re-re-re and re-learned - don't rely on transcriptions.

What a cheater that Sabicas pami is too easy.

I am curious, do you have problems playing a longer sequence of piami on the top two strings? I have never gotten the hang of that. But you never see people spending too much time with their thumb on the B string with tremolo anyways.

No problem for me. The point about when to do pami vs piami or even longer combo, is tempo. Fast tempos dont' allow a comfy 5 note, and medium slow tempos drag on with the wrong feeling for 4 notes. It is not about "cheats". Anyway, search for "Tremolo" or "flamenco tremolo" in the archives. My advice is learn to do this:
iamiP........iamiP........iamiP.....etc, and so you LAND on the thumb on B string and rest or pause for a moment, but do the fingers on the high E string fast. Instead of speeding up the technique, you simply close the gap of time between the thumb stroke, and the next index stroke, until it is as even as you want. many flamenco's don't do a perfect even 5 tuplet anyway.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2009 10:01:26

HolyEvil

Posts: 1240
Joined: Nov. 6 2008
From: Sydney, Australia

RE: Help With Sabicas Alegrias Tremolo (in reply to Ricardo)

hmm I don't think the search function is working..
I searched for practice routine, tremolo, ras, even yamaha..

no hits.. except for 1 page for yamaha..

thanks Ricardo. at least I'll remember this when I start learning tremolo.

cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2009 0:35:25

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Help With Sabicas Alegrias Tremolo (in reply to Aaron)

quote:

Faucher says to play it piami. I can make it sound much closer by playing pami

Sabicas uses "classical" pima a lot but I guess faucher just assumed it would be flamenco tremelo.
Here is a litttle exercise for tremelo on two strings that I came up with while transcribing Liszts Hungarian rhapsody. You have to alternate playing tremelo on the top 2 strings and then the top string only.

Heavy type is P followed by a,m,i

------7-7-7-7-7-7-7------7-7-7-7-7-7-7-------7-7-7-7-7-7-7--------7-7-7-7-7-7-7-
11--------------------10---------------------11---------------------10--------------------

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2009 2:21:22

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Help With Sabicas Alegrias Tremolo (in reply to Pimientito)

Now do same again with the b string as

11------------9-------------11-------------9------------

repeat until it sounds like the Hungarian rhapsody!!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2009 2:23:29

Aaron

Posts: 9
Joined: Oct. 14 2006

RE: Help With Sabicas Alegrias Tremolo (in reply to Aaron)

Yes it is all about tempo. Before I knew about flamenco tremolo I thought tremolo was relatively easy with just pami. That 2 string Sabicas part was easy for me to play. Then I learned flamenco tremolo and following the Faucher transcript I convinced myself I needed to play that section piami and that I was just too slow to match Sabicas' tempo. But I for one cannot move fast enough to add the extra note.

Thanks for the exercise Pimientito. It helps a lot to practice on one string. After I saw Scott tenant practicing on one string in his video I started doing it. Then I got the Nunez video and saw his claw hand approach and nearly fainted. Everything he plays sounds like a crisp picado. I think it is easier to play tremolo with very relaxed straight fingers that are just sweeping across the string. But to play like Nunez, each fingernail must *strike* the string at a deliberate angle. So I started practicing that way and noticed a better "flamenco" sound in my tremolo. I wish I could adopt all of the sounds. I wish I could play a Grisha tremolo and a Nunez tremolo. I've never seen anyone who could master multiple styles.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2009 6:55:33