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RE: America
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Pimientito
Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella
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RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)
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Yeah Guys, Its been a good debate. Its good to be able to discuss without getting into insults etc. and we all have different backgrounds. As someone said "I may not agree with your opinion, but I'll die defending your right to express it" Bogden- I do think that your idea of socialism and mine are different though and considering your upbringing I can understand. You have said Communism where you could better use Socialism and Vice versa in your posts and so it seems you think them to be the same. "a little socialism" is not the same as "a little communism" in my opinion. Spain is a socialist state (now) and as Flo says, some social health care and education are good things to have in a wealthy society. Of course in any socialist society there are going to be dead beats who abuse the system...this makes me angry too, and it was something I hated about living in the Uk. However when you say you would rather pay for an MRI out of your own pocket than go to a state doctor, you are talking from an extremely privilidged position that allows you to make that choice. quote:
what gets me is richer pay more is if there were to be punished for their success. This is where I find fault in your argument. You have come from a society where opportunity was very difficult to a society where you can work hard and achieve. It is clear from your posts you have come from a poor situation and worked very hard indeed to make a good life...Well done...Congratulations...you have made success due to your effort. Some of that is due to America but dont put yourself down..al ot of that comes from YOU. So why should you give anything to anyone who hasnt worked for it. You will never be a dead beat so you cant see how someone else could be unless they chose it! I moved to Spain and made a living too but its not because Spain is socialist...its because I worked hard as well....but I know lots of Spanish that dont have the same education as me or business knowledge etc. so I have an advantage. One has to consider a higher question. Is it acceptable in the richest country in the world to see your neighbours dying in the streets of hunger or disease?...or is it better to have every man for himself? Taxation is not a punishment, its a payment for your opportunity to make money so I dont disagree with paying fair taxes (ie a reasonable portion of what you earn, and only being taxed once). However, like you, i dont think it should be the individual wage earners that support the tax burden. My problem is with the MEGA rich who earn millions and pay relatively no tax. Of course I understand corporations employ thousands of people and they offer health benefits to their workers, but does mean they should get massive tax breaks. A million dollars piled up is about 2 meters high. When a Rothschild died recently, he left a fortune nearly 3 KM high. Now tell me...how can you justify that sort of wealth when kids cant get education and mental patients have to resort to street crime to survive because there are no institutions to put them in? This is the unfairness of capitalism without social responsibility. I am not saying you should have communist re-distribution of wealth but I don't believe that bankers with 500 million dollars dont owe a lot to the communities that made them rich. The mega rich should be taxed highly after several million dollars of personal wealth, they will still be mega rich!
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 30 2008 11:22:34
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: America (in reply to Bogdan1980)
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quote:
For some reason it takes a while to load a comment. Are we being moderated? Bogdan. All the uploaded posts here are re-directed first to the KGB for examination, for which they pay a small amount to help keep the site going. This year I went for a free eye examination at a local opticians shop. The optician found something wrong and contacted the central hospital and faxed my details over. I went up and was examined by a specialist free of charge who was concerned about my blood pressure. I was then admitted to a centrally heated and beautifully clean small ward (8 beds although only 4 beds occupied at the time). Each bed unit had TV/Radio/Telephone and Internet connection. Every morning a menu was given and you could choose all your meals for the day. Inbetween there were trollys coming round with tea and coffee and biscuits etc. I was seen twice a day by specialists, given blood tests, urine tests, X-Ray, ECG, Kidney Scan, Heart Echo-Scan and MRI along with Retinal Scans and a range of Optometric tests, all with highly trained technicians and nurses. This took a week, all at no charge. This is Socialism. The main idea is to get you back into circulation, being productive and thus paying your fair share of taxes. What's wrong with that idea? Tom Farmer and Bob Soutar are fellow Scots who are now multi-millionaires from their Car Repair and Bus Network companies respectively. Both of them had no need to leave Scotland because of any tax issues, in fact both are very sincere and decent people who support charities and various social organisations with a lot of money. There are heaps of very rich people in Scotland, who have seen no need to move away, but still live in the community. I think you've had bad experiences from your early days in the Soviet system. Most Western European democrarcies are nothing like that at all. Great discussion BTW! cheers, Ron
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Oct. 30 2008 13:33:10
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: America (in reply to DOKI)
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quote:
WISE UP GUYS LET AMERICA BE AMERICA DON'T CLAIM YOUR SOCIAL PROGRAMS WILL MAKE A BETTER WORLD. YOUR GIVING THOSE IN AMERICA THE WRONG MESSAGE BY YOUR CONFIDENCE IN THE DEMOCRAT CANDIDATE. EUROPE WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE USA GO DOWN..WELL NOT OVER MY DEAD BODY. SEE YA...... Doki, Relax man, Nobody here in Europe would ever want America to be anything less than America. Where are we gonna go on holiday for a start? I must admit, I love the films, the music and literature that's come out of the USA , but I think you've really gotta be born there to survive... When I was 26 I spent some great times there and was offered a job in Dallas. I had to think about it, and to me the States were like this... Imagine all the electronic things in your house.. Things like the radio, the HiFi, the TV, Central Heating/Air Conditioning etc.. Now imagine everything turned up to MAX! Sadly, the thought was too terrifying for me, so had to decline and come back to my wee hoose overlooking the North Sea. Norman....the Government here are onto the Deadbeats.. One guy who was claiming sickness benefit for a bad back was secretly filmed in a Social Security "sting" of having a part-time job with a furniture removals company and playing football on a Saturday afternoon. So.... Gordon Brown has introduced a new policy, where the people claiming to be too sick to work are going to be tested by Government doctors, instead of their own. It put me in mind of the WW2 Army induction doctors where you stood in line and the doctor made you say "AAAh" and depressed the back of your tongue with a spatula, then made you drop your underpants and lifted your balls with the spatula and made you cough twice, before announcing "100 percent A1 fit for Duty"... He then moved up the line and repeated the same tests with the same spatula.. So now all the benefit seekers are getting tipped out of their wheelchairs and made to crawl 25 feet before being pronounced A1 fit for work. Hey...we need more tax revenue after spending hundreds of billions baling out the Banks!! Europe and Britain are pretty buggered up.. But I still like it just the same.. cheers, Ron
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 1 2008 13:10:01
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