RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars

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Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to rpguitar)

quote:

Let's see some bidding! Where's that buying spirit?

Rp, maybe they'll let you trade your Conde for one.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 3 2008 21:19:13

Mark2

Posts: 1873
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

Looks like no one was willing to risk whatever the reserve was.........................

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2008 10:10:07

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Mark2)

quote:

Looks like no one was willing to risk whatever the reserve was.........................

...and $375 wasn't good enough for GSI for one of these no-name instruments.

Hmmm....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2008 10:29:25

ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco

...and $375 wasn't good enough for GSI for one of these no-name instruments.

Hmmm....

It's a business and they need to make money. That's probably why they started their eBay store - to unload the slower moving items.

My guess is that they probably set their reserve to at least 50% of the MSRP.

But think about what I had written regarding retail pricing practices. Outside of the boutique stores like GSI, most other retailers will discount 35-40% off list and that's for an instrument with a 1-5 year (or limited lifetime) warranty and a recognized name that provides a resale value. These guitars have neither of those, are technically "used" instruments, and they are factory guitars.

If you get something that doesn't sound that great to you, just wait and see how much you'll be able to get for it when you try to sell "a no-name guitar from China".

The only instruments that get a lower discount off their MSRP are luthier or small-workshop instruments. But even the boutique shops will often only offer discounts of 10-20% off of factory guitars on the assumption that they provide extra services. But unless you're a local buyer and able to avail of free inspections and set-up services, then where is the "value-add"?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2008 10:51:29

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to ChiyoDad)

quote:

It's a business and they need to make money. That's probably why they started their eBay store - to unload the slower moving items.

My guess is that they probably set their reserve to at least 50% of the MSRP.

I thought samples were usually either free or sold to a retailer at a deep discount. This is the incentive businesses need to demo new products and to determine if the quality of the product is worth the risk--especially true with something like these no-name instruments.

Why would a retailer spend good money on something they are unfamiliar with and might not be able to sell? It isn't as if they are creating a market with a lower price point to compete with Yamaha.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2008 11:20:20

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to ChiyoDad)

quote:

It's a business and they need to make money. That's probably why they started their eBay store - to unload the slower moving items.

My guess is that they probably set their reserve to at least 50% of the MSRP.

But think about what I had written regarding retail pricing practices. Outside of the boutique stores like GSI, most other retailers will discount 35-40% off list and that's for an instrument with a 1-5 year (or limited lifetime) warranty and a recognized name that provides a resale value. These guitars have neither of those, are technically "used" instruments, and they are factory guitars.

If you get something that doesn't sound that great to you, just wait and see how much you'll be able to get for it when you try to sell "a no-name guitar from China".

The only instruments that get a lower discount off their MSRP are luthier or small-workshop instruments. But even the boutique shops will often only offer discounts of 10-20% off of factory guitars on the assumption that they provide extra services. But unless you're a local buyer and able to avail of free inspections and set-up services, then where is the "value-add"?

Maybe the business model is wrong here?

Why don't they try "Buy one, get one free!"

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2008 11:26:24

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

Maybe the business model is wrong here?

Why don't they try "Buy one, get one free!"

cheers,

Ron

Good one!

I bet they could afford to give away one of these Chinese guitars with the purchase of any of their guitars priced over $4,000 USD (and most are).

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2008 11:35:00

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

quote:

If you get something that doesn't sound that great to you, just wait and see how much you'll be able to get for it when you try to sell "a no-name guitar from China"

+1
I think that's ultimately why they didn't sell.

It doesn't matter whether these guitars were being sold by GSI, Musician's Friend or freaking Sotheby's. Realistically speaking, the most money that any no-name Chinese guitar can fetch is maybe $150 tops.

I won't speak like some know-it-all, but I bet the prices offered for those guitars, as over-inflated as they seem to me, were probably closer to true market value than whatever generous reserve GSI had set. Oh well, maybe they'll take the hint and have better luck selling them next time.

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Don't look at me in that tone of voice.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2008 12:06:19

ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to kovachian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kovachian

+1
I think that's ultimately why they didn't sell. It doesn't matter whether these guitars were being sold by GSI, Musician's Friend or freaking Sotheby's. Realistically speaking, the most money that any no-name Chinese guitar can fetch is maybe $150 tops.

Assuming that the buyer will even believe you when you say that it's made of "all-solid woods" and not sandwiched matching veneers.

"Hey! Can I saw off a portion of the top to check that's it's not a laminate?"

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2008 12:10:46

ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to kovachian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kovachian

I won't speak like some know-it-all, but I bet the prices offered for those guitars, as over-inflated as they seem to me, were probably closer to true market value than whatever generous reserve GSI had set. Oh well, maybe they'll take the hint and have better luck selling them next time.

After looking at the auctions, my guess is that the last price offered is already above market.

My reasoning is that there was no last-minute bid war (or snipe attack) on these. That's sometimes an indicator that the last bidder has already overbid the true market value.

Get a Navarro or a Yamaha. When you're ready to upgrade, you'll typically recoup 60-80% of what you paid for it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 4 2008 12:24:06

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

I bought one of those ornately-inlaid Taiwanese guitars auctioned on ebay -- there are several factories. Can't remember for sure who made it. Bruce Wei and Antonio Tsai seem to be the more productive makers. I think it may have been one of them. Indian rosewood, ebony soundboard, spruce top, all solid woods.

Absolutely the worst sounding guitar I ever played. Bar none.

Heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy construction, thick, gloopy sprayed-on polymer finish, frets badly set. Neck was straight, and I'm sure would never warp, it was so thick.

MAYBE it could have been salvaged with a lot of work on the frets and installation of pickups that allowed a lot of independent frequency correction.

I sold it in our shop at cost to someone local who wanted a gorgeous-looking guitar and didn't seem to care much about sound.

I have noticed that the Taiwanese ebay auctions have changed recently: they put up a LOT more guitars that they call "high end" starting at about $400 reserve (I paid about $200 + $125 S&H). Maybe the high end ones are better than what I got, which was, admittedly, half the cost of their high-end ones.

Anybody know if the "high-end" Taiwanese guitars sound better?

I hope we are talking about a different animal here. I hope the GSI experiment is an attempt to lead the Chinese toward becoming competitive in making real guitars. It is hard to imagine they would ever make concert-grade guitars in a factory setting, but on the other hand, I hear they do make very respectable violins.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 7 2008 13:42:56

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

By the way, I asked GSI (via ebay) what these chinese guitars weighed. 2.8 lbs.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 8 2008 14:41:07

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

By the way, I asked GSI (via ebay) what these chinese guitars weighed. 2.8 lbs.

How does that compare to other light-build guitars?

Kenny Hill trained people in China and now imports many of his New World guitars made by these luthiers. I think there is an article on his website about his experience in China.

Some of these people may have ventured out on their own or trained other people. This is what I was hoping for when I heard about the GSI samples.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2008 9:45:23

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to a_arnold)

quote:

I bought one of those ornately-inlaid Taiwanese guitars auctioned on ebay -- there are several factories. Can't remember for sure who made it. Bruce Wei and Antonio Tsai seem to be the more productive makers. I think it may have been one of them. Indian rosewood, ebony soundboard, spruce top, all solid woods.

Absolutely the worst sounding guitar I ever played. Bar none.

Heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy construction, thick, gloopy sprayed-on polymer finish, frets badly set. Neck was straight, and I'm sure would never warp, it was so thick.

MAYBE it could have been salvaged with a lot of work on the frets and installation of pickups that allowed a lot of independent frequency correction.

I sold it in our shop at cost to someone local who wanted a gorgeous-looking guitar and didn't seem to care much about sound.

Ah yes, the one and only Antonio Tsai. His shoddy garbage has gained him alot of attention over the last few years, needless to say he's garnered only the negative type of attention.

http://www.chionline.com/Antoniotsai/index.html

_____________________________

Don't look at me in that tone of voice.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 9 2008 11:25:34

Mark2

Posts: 1873
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to a_arnold)

HAHA I see I'm not the only one who got a Bruce Wei special!! Get ready for this. The last time I took this dog out of the case to photograph for sale on craigslist, I noticed it was molding under the finish on the back with all the inlays. Lots of mold, completely ruining the only thing it had going for it-good looks, which if you look closely, you see that it really doesn't look that good because of the poor workmanship. I don't think it matters what you pay from these guys-they have no clue.

Mine actually doesn't sound that bad - the action is horrible, and really it doesn't sound that GOOD either. Not worth fixing. Might make a nice bonfire, but I'd try not to inhale the fumes from the tons of finish and of course, the mold. I like craigslist much more than e-bay. Lower prices, and you get to see the stuff before you folk over the cash. And no shipping costs.

quote:

ORIGINAL: a_arnold

I bought one of those ornately-inlaid Taiwanese guitars auctioned on ebay -- there are several factories. Can't remember for sure who made it. Bruce Wei and Antonio Tsai seem to be the more productive makers. I think it may have been one of them. Indian rosewood, ebony soundboard, spruce top, all solid woods.

Absolutely the worst sounding guitar I ever played. Bar none.

Heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy construction, thick, gloopy sprayed-on polymer finish, frets badly set. Neck was straight, and I'm sure would never warp, it was so thick.

MAYBE it could have been salvaged with a lot of work on the frets and installation of pickups that allowed a lot of independent frequency correction.

I sold it in our shop at cost to someone local who wanted a gorgeous-looking guitar and didn't seem to care much about sound.

I have noticed that the Taiwanese ebay auctions have changed recently: they put up a LOT more guitars that they call "high end" starting at about $400 reserve (I paid about $200 + $125 S&H). Maybe the high end ones are better than what I got, which was, admittedly, half the cost of their high-end ones.

Anybody know if the "high-end" Taiwanese guitars sound better?

I hope we are talking about a different animal here. I hope the GSI experiment is an attempt to lead the Chinese toward becoming competitive in making real guitars. It is hard to imagine they would ever make concert-grade guitars in a factory setting, but on the other hand, I hear they do make very respectable violins.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2008 7:18:10

ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

It looks like they're back, if you want to risk the purchase.

Funny but you'd think that somebody at Guitar Salon would have wanted to keep these for themselves if it was that great a bargain. I'd estimate that the material and labor cost of these guitars is about 18-20% of their suggested retail price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-All-Solid-Flamenco-Guitar_W0QQitemZ200258738053QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item200258738053&_trkparms=72%3A1234|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Flamenco-Guitar-ALL-SOLID_W0QQitemZ200258737847QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item200258737847&_trkparms=72%3A1234|39%3A1|66%3A2|65%3A12|240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2008 11:11:06