Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

Update cookies preferences




GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars 

GSI is selling two Chinese-made sample flamenco guitars on US eBay. Has anybody tried any Chinese Flamencas yet?

Here are the links:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Flamenco-Guitar-ALL-SOLID_W0QQitemZ200250103427QQihZ010QQcategoryZ2385QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-All-Solid-Flamenco-Guitar_W0QQitemZ200250099891QQihZ010QQcategoryZ2385QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2008 15:48:24
 
ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

The Yamaha CG171SF is a Chinese-made flamenca (albeit it was designed by the Japanese). I'm sure that these were not made in the Yamaha factory.

It's interesting however that the prototype is being sold. Most protos are circulated to prospective retailers or resellers for evaluation. This suggests that the proto did not meet spec or that the final product will be different from the prototype.

I seriously doubt that GSI would be selling these themselves given the suggested price-points (which would need to be discounted by 35-40% to get to street price). More likely Tim Miklaucic requested these for his evaluation as possible additions to the Cordoba line ... which will be sold at Guitar Center and Best Buy.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 28 2008 16:36:31
 
kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

The 171 is made in China now? Mine is roughly 4 years old and was made in Taiwan. I guess there are dozens of countries the world over that are losing jobs to outsourcing huh. Well hopefully it's still of the same quality as the older ones.

_____________________________

Don't look at me in that tone of voice.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 4:46:21
 
ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to kovachian

quote:

ORIGINAL: kovachian

The 171 is made in China now? Mine is roughly 4 years old and was made in Taiwan.

The bulk of guitar-manufacturing was relocated from Indonesia and Taiwan to a new central facility in Hangzhou, China, where Yamaha had long been manufacturing pianos. This happened in early 2007.

Of the new guitars coming from Hangzhou, the only one that has disappointed me thus far was the C45MA (which costs only $90). I thought that the folks in Indonesia made it better (and better looking). I will admit however that the internal bracing seems even cleaner and looks lighter than before.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 6:24:54
 
rpguitar

 

Posts: 27
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: New Jersey, USA

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

The fact that these guitars have no label *might* mean that a well known maker is attempting to gauge interest, and using GSI as a trusted expert in nylon stringed instruments to do so... but they don't want to let the cat out of the bag yet.

For example, Eastman Strings is a killer guitar company - they make archtops and steel string flattops that have set a new price point for that level of quality in the market. My first thought (hope?) was that the "factory" could be them.

But the bidding is at such a low price that I don't know if that's really possible.

_____________________________

--
'08 Eliasson hybrid blanca, '07 Hmnos Sanchis Lopez Bulerias negra, '72 Conde blanca
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 6:40:15
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to kovachian

quote:

I guess there are dozens of countries the world over that are losing jobs to outsourcing


Yeah...it's a shame.
This is maybe the PdL workshop in China...




cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 8:03:22
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to rpguitar

quote:

The fact that these guitars have no label *might* mean that a well known maker is attempting to gauge interest, and using GSI as a trusted expert in nylon stringed instruments to do so... but they don't want to let the cat out of the bag yet.


This is what I was thinking--at some point this could happen. Why would GSI bother if these guitars were junk?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 8:48:21
 
ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to rpguitar

quote:

ORIGINAL: rpguitar

The fact that these guitars have no label *might* mean that a well known maker is attempting to gauge interest, ...

That well-known maker would probably be Tim Miklaucic who now sources the Cordoba Iberia line from China (they used to be made in Portugal).

The Cordoba C5 is a popular entry-level classical guitar. They are now scheduled to soon announce two new models: the C7 and the C10. I expect both to be solid-body guitars with the C7 probably being solid mahogany and the C10 being solid rosewood.

The flamencas on eBay are probably decent guitars if they are made in the same Chinese factory. I would suspect that the "retail value" mentioned in the auction is their targeted MSRP. So discount the MSRP down by 35%-40% and you would arrive at it's street price (with warranty). Discount the street price by 40%-50% for its second-hand-mint-and-no-warranty price (assuming that you follow bluebook averages for sub-$1000 guitars that have a recognized name brand).

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 8:53:41
 
ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco
This is what I was thinking--at some point this could happen. Why would GSI bother if these guitars were junk?

Tim is one of the founders of GSI and of Tornavoz Music. They import and distribute the Cordoba and Loriente lines ... among many others. He posts every so often in the GSI forums ... whenever the touchy subject of "Who is Antonio Loriente?" comes up.

Google Tornavoz Music.

The Cordoba Iberia series is their budget line of guitars. The Cordoba Fusion series is their crossover line (for steel-stringers). All Chinese-made as opposed to the Artist series (made in Spain).

It had been long speculated that Cordoba wants some lower-priced flamenco guitars to take a piece of Yamaha's action with the CG171SF.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 9:00:28
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to ChiyoDad

quote:

Google Tornavoz Music.


Nice site and a good resource. Thanks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 9:17:11
 
DonS

Posts: 232
Joined: Mar. 1 2007
From: Florida and San Francisco Cali

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Ron.M

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M

quote:

I guess there are dozens of countries the world over that are losing jobs to outsourcing


Yeah...it's a shame.
This is maybe the PdL workshop in China...




cheers,

Ron


nice....such intricate craftmanship I love how one of guys working on the belt sander looks to the side while the guitar was still on the sander YIKES! this is extreme factory line....bam, bam..bam next.. Regarding PdL's line of guitars, I use a PdL Carrillo blanca for my gigs and I was pretty blown away with the sound, craftmanship and playability. It reminds me a lot of Conde...very similar to feel and tone. Maybe this is what Paco and Ramon wanted Carrillo to make, basically a Conde for less. The top has probably one of the best quality and tighest grained spruce top I've ever seen on a flamenco ..even has bear claw on it. I wonder if Vicente Carrillo makes this guitar (or still makes guitars) He has been selling a lot of these lately from what I've heard and since he dropped his normal 1a line flamenco and only offers PdL models. This one sure impressed the heck out of me.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 9:50:50
 
Mark2

Posts: 1945
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

I'd think with all the flamenco guitarists in LA, one of them would have gone into the shop and played and bought the guitars if they were any good. As tempting as it is to get a flamenco guitar that plays and sounds decent for cheap, you'd be buying a pig in a poke. Too bad I'm not in LA!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 9:59:31
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Mark2

quote:

I'd think with all the flamenco guitarists in LA, one of them would have gone into the shop and played and bought the guitars if they were any good. As tempting as it is to get a flamenco guitar that plays and sounds decent for cheap, you'd be buying a pig in a poke. Too bad I'm not in LA!


I'd have to try a guitar like this--with no known pedigree--myself before buying. It’s too risky to buy without trying first.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 10:17:39
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to DonS

quote:

I use a PdL Carrillo blanca for my gigs and I was pretty blown away with the sound, craftmanship and playability. It reminds me a lot of Conde...very similar to feel and tone. Maybe this is what Paco and Ramon wanted Carrillo to make, basically a Conde for less.


Hey Don,
These guys will make Condes too!
No prob,... Just depending on how many you want and at what price.
They're pretty flexy...

cheers

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 12:08:45
 
ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Mark2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

As tempting as it is to get a flamenco guitar that plays and sounds decent for cheap, you'd be buying a pig in a poke.

Greg Rich, who used to work in the custom shop at Gibson and was hired by The Music Link to design their new guitars (the revived Recording King label, now made in China) has, by practice kept all the protos of his creations. Greg, of course, has built and designed some big-$$$$ guitars but these protos that he keeps are about $400 to $800 at street.

I'm curious that Tim chose not to keep these protos.

Do the auctions specify a return policy?

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 13:20:18
 
Mark2

Posts: 1945
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to ChiyoDad

Hey who knows, maybe they are great and will be a great deal, but they are unknowns at this point. LA isn't exactly the middle of nowhere though-you'd think if they were any good it'd be no problem to sell them locally.

No return policy specified. They are claiming the reserve price represents a great deal, but since no one knows what the reserve price is, that's kind of vague. I suppose you could trust the reputation of the store, but since what's a great or even a good guitar is so subjective, it's a real gamble to pay for something that you may consider useless.


quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiyoDad

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

As tempting as it is to get a flamenco guitar that plays and sounds decent for cheap, you'd be buying a pig in a poke.

Greg Rich, who used to work in the custom shop at Gibson and was hired by The Music Link to design their new guitars (the revived Recording King label, now made in China) has, by practice kept all the protos of his creations. Greg, of course, has built and designed some big-$$$$ guitars but these protos that he keeps are about $400 to $800 at street.

I'm curious that Tim chose not to keep these protos.

Do the auctions specify a return policy?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 29 2008 13:27:09
 
DonS

Posts: 232
Joined: Mar. 1 2007
From: Florida and San Francisco Cali

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Ron.M

LOL...I'm sure they can, if they really wanted to...the Chinese have mastered the art (if you can call it that) of copying products ..pretty darn good at it. I'm sure if these big manufacturers decided to send some of these guys to Spain to apprentice and learn from the Conde plant, then can come out with something very similar. I don't think that its on their agenda to produce top of the line though...they would rather go for the big bucks and sell mass quantities. I've heard lately that some big name Spanish guitars are being outsourced to the Madinter workshop (?)...I didn't even know they made guitars there as well..darn, spanish guitars should be getting cheaper instead of more expensive! except for those like Anders and others that actually make their own guitars.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2008 13:11:47
 
ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

I thought I had read somewhere about a Spanish guitar manufacturer planning to outsource its low-end production to ... of all places ... India. Had anyone heard of that one?

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2008 18:28:39
 
ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

I got the word from GSI about these Chinese-made guitars:

"All eBay sales are final"



'Nuff said.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2008 9:24:05
 
DonS

Posts: 232
Joined: Mar. 1 2007
From: Florida and San Francisco Cali

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to ChiyoDad

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChiyoDad

I thought I had read somewhere about a Spanish guitar manufacturer planning to outsource its low-end production to ... of all places ... India. Had anyone heard of that one?


Are you serious?! LOL!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2008 14:36:04
 
ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to DonS

quote:

ORIGINAL: DonS
Are you serious?! LOL!


I can see it now ....


... flamenco sitar.


_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2008 14:50:01
 
ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

... featuring Paco de Gupta.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2008 14:53:06
 
rpguitar

 

Posts: 27
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: New Jersey, USA

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

I'm surprised that nobody sees the irony... The Gypsies originated from Northern India! Full circle in a few hundred years.

_____________________________

--
'08 Eliasson hybrid blanca, '07 Hmnos Sanchis Lopez Bulerias negra, '72 Conde blanca
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2008 17:30:31
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to rpguitar

quote:

I'm surprised that nobody sees the irony... The Gypsies originated from Northern India! Full circle in a few hundred years.


It didn't occur to me--now it all makes sense.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2008 18:28:17
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

I was in Madrid last month to buy wood. There were hardly any cypress to choose from... Maybe its all in China?

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2008 22:55:38
 
ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Anders Eliasson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anders Eliasson

I was in Madrid last month to buy wood. There were hardly any cypress to choose from... Maybe its all in China?


You betcha!



_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 3 2008 6:33:43
 
Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to ChiyoDad

Not bad!

It's "Picture Postcard from Spain" Flamenco though.

You can hear the same 4/4 stuff on Spanish commercial radio.

cheers,

Ron
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 3 2008 11:42:41
 
enurbf03

 

Posts: 26
Joined: Sep. 3 2008
From: petticoat junction

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

The guys at GSI are good guys. Im not sure what this stuff is about.

But ive bought guitars from them, and have always been satisfied.

E
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 3 2008 12:53:03
 
rpguitar

 

Posts: 27
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: New Jersey, USA

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

On other boards, members would be jockeying to be the first to try such a beast and "report back" to the troops. Let's see some bidding! Where's that buying spirit?

_____________________________

--
'08 Eliasson hybrid blanca, '07 Hmnos Sanchis Lopez Bulerias negra, '72 Conde blanca
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 3 2008 19:02:57
 
ChiyoDad

Posts: 151
Joined: Jun. 30 2007
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: GSI Chinese Sample Flamenco Guitars (in reply to rpguitar

quote:

ORIGINAL: rpguitar

Let's see some bidding! Where's that buying spirit?

Feel free to bid and let us know. I think I'd rather go with a sure thing in a good Navarro.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 3 2008 20:08:18
Page:   [1] 2    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1] 2    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

7.800293E-02 secs.