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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2008 6:38:45

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: intonation (in reply to Guest)

quote:

Can an old fourth string affect intonation?
Is the 4th string a common problem?

Can worn frets and/or bone (or plastic-bridge position) also affect intonation?

Old strings affect intonation, the 4th is not specially a problem. The 3rd is a general problem

Worn frets cause little intonation problems, worn bones cause intonation problems

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2008 7:48:15

Conrad

Posts: 533
Joined: Jul. 16 2003
From: Toronto, ON, Canada

RE: intonation (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Really, Anders? For me the fourth, D, is always the first to go out of intonation. Ya, I have heard plastic bridges/nuts are worse for intonation, too, romerito.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2008 7:58:52

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: intonation (in reply to Guest)

I've got an intonation issue that's troubling me as well, and is related to the G string (Romerito, I don't know if you mean fourth from the highest or fourth from the lowest string). I only notice it when I do an exercise playing octaves up the neck on the A and G strings. Sounds alright at the first couple of frets, but then it starts sounding really bad and sour, and gets progressively worse the higher up the neck I go. My problem is not related to string age or type- it's there regardless of what brand I'm using or how old they are. Not really much of a problem, since I don't really notice it during normal play, and I tend to stay in root position exclusively, but but it is a bit worrisome. I really don't understand how tis stuff works at all..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2008 8:02:02

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: intonation (in reply to Guest)

The 4th is the skinniest and weakest string, considering it is wrapped by wire. So always the bigger problem for me. Just change the darn thing. If it happens again, change again. Eventually you will find a good string.

Oh if your problem is tuning the thing with the capo, I tend to put the d string a hair sharper than others, just because I want that perfect 5th against the A string bass note chords. I think it is a problem of it's thickness when you put the capo on (the fatter diameter strings bend more over the frets, like E, A, G, for example), and the general problems with equal temp tuning.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2008 15:02:04

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2008 15:10:38

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: intonation (in reply to srshea)

quote:

I've got an intonation issue that's troubling me as well, and is related to the G string (Romerito, I don't know if you mean fourth from the highest or fourth from the lowest string). I only notice it when I do an exercise playing octaves up the neck on the A and G strings. Sounds alright at the first couple of frets, but then it starts sounding really bad and sour, and gets progressively worse the higher up the neck I go.

I have the same issue. The workaround that I came up with consists of tuning the octave formed when holding the A string at the 10th fret with the G string at the 12th fret. I go back and forth between tuning this octave and tuning the unison formed by the D string at the 5th fret with the open G string.

This works like a charm and allows me to tune the guitar perfectly so that all of the octaves formed from one string to any other string and all of the usual 5th and 4th fret to open string unison notes used for tuning are in tune.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2008 11:18:09

srshea

Posts: 833
Joined: Oct. 29 2006
From: Olympia, WA in the Great Pacific Northwest

RE: intonation (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

Pgh_flamenco, thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, it's not working for me. I get totally different results when I tune the octave at the 10th and 12th, and when I tune to the fifth fret and open G.

I just ran a few tests with the ol' chromatic tuner and have determined that the problem is definitely with the G. Playing each string string open and then at the 12th fret gets the same results from the tuner, except on the G string. The G is sharp by 6 or 7 Hz at the 12 fret. So the problem is the G getting progressively sharper at each fret, from low to high. I've been looking around on-line, trying to make sense of the basics of how intonation works and what the root cause of this might be, but I'm still just scratching my head. My best guess would be that the saddle is not quite shaped properly...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2008 15:55:29

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: intonation (in reply to srshea)

This type of saddle might be useful to you. It appears to be adjustable for each string like the ones found on an electric guitar. I’ve been meaning to post this picture and this seems to be an appropriate thread.

You could try replacing the saddle you have—it’s cheap enough. Another option would be to have a local luthier sand the edge that contacts the strings to “dial in“ the intonation. Just food for thought.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2008 16:54:05

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: intonation (in reply to Guest)

Weird, never seen those kind of saddles for nylons. Are those brass?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2008 18:37:16

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: intonation (in reply to Pgh_flamenco)

Pgh, what are they called? And how you exactly adjust them? Looks very nice and would be very useful imo.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2008 21:59:03

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: intonation (in reply to kovachian)

I found this picture on eBay and have never personally used nor seen such a saddle in person--so I can't answer your questions. I was hoping other Foro members and luthiers could explain the pros and cons of such a saddle system. It's definitely an interesting setup, but is it practical?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 20 2008 0:35:17