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The quest begins: three intermediate priced guitars tried
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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 The quest begins: three intermediate...
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At last I managed to get to a shop with some flamenco guitars. I spent last Friday hanging out at the Spanish Guitar Centre in Bristol.
On the menu in my price range (up to 700 or 800 quid) were the following guitars:
Burguet 2F
Azahar 132F
Cuenca 70F
Here are my thoughts on these guitars:
Cuenca 70F
Nicely made guitar, but like a Cuenca I had previously tried out, it sounded like a classical guitar with good note definition. A tad heavy to. Definitely not what I am looking for, so this was quickly dispensed with.
Azahar 132F
First (visible) impressions were not that good - the guitar had the finish and build quality of a guitar costing a hundred pounds or so. The finish on the body was a nasty, acid yellow varnish which IMO clashed with the colour of the neck. Varnishing on the side of the neck was not straight near the fingerboard edge, and the rosewod fingerboard was not great quality - uneven in places with gaps at the end of the first fret next the nut.
The guitar badly needed a setup - the nut certainly needed planing down and the saddle looked a little high too.
It did sound really rather good, a nice bright, raspy bite, lots of volume and it responded well. When pushed hard, it didn't seem to offer much more.
I kept picking it up, though, as I did like its sound, but in the this price range I expect a better finish, and a better set-up.
Last up was the Burguet. This is a really nice guitar to play. Lovely 'play-me' neck on it, and a very low fast action. Slightly too low, actually, as it was very buzzy on the basses just about everywhere. Lovely finish and build quality - it looks expensive - and the label inside was signed (presumably by Amalio?). Interesting choice of varnish - its kind of a maple colour, and not the usual yellow/orange.
The guitar body was slightly thinner when compared to the others - something I see Dave Billyboy thought too (in the archive). I also felt it was a little quieter than the other guitars, but it was certainly responsive and when played hard, responded well and seemed to have loads more to offer. Very good balance across the strings (my ras have never sounded so good), and a nice flamenco tone, maybe not quite as raspy as I want, but then I am probably going to have to compromise.
All in all, a very nice guitar. I didn't buy it as I want to try out as many as possible first, but I haven't ruled it out.
The best thing about the day was finally hearing my rasgueado on flamenco guitars, having been used to classical guitars for so long. Wow! What a difference. So much better, clearer, easier to do, sounded much more like that snare drum sound. It just makes the waiting even worse! 
Jon
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Date Apr. 20 2004 11:06:22
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Guest
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RE: The quest begins: three intermed... (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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Hola
Nowadays a good guitar costs 2000 euros. Plan your holiday in Spain, perhaps even in Valencia, and buy a guitar which will be of your lifetime, unless you aspire to Gerundino or Reyes.
Sean
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Apr. 20 2004 14:38:42
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Guest
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RE: The quest begins: three intermed... (in reply to Escribano)
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The best deal on Valeriano guitars is at his taller/factory in Algodones. He is half retired, but his son makes top class guitars at top prices, while family and workers make the rest. The guitars exported are special factory jobs, worth little money after all costs of exporting and middlemen are considered.
It is no coincidence that the majority of young players in Jerez and the great majority of carnaval players in Cadiz play the cheaper models of Valeriano. They are the best value. Meanwhile, a top player such as Fernando Moreno is happy with the top model.
I could get you a great 1986 Primera Especial, signed by Valeriano, for 2000 euros. A new one probably costs 5000 nowadays.
Come to Spain and visit Algodones, Granada or Valencia.
Sean
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Date May 2 2004 15:21:15
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Guest
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RE: The quest begins: three intermed... (in reply to Jim Opfer)
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Jim
Ways of verifying guitars change: even signatures are suspect. I would trust only my ears and would never pay an outrageous price. And look at the serial number assigning on factory guitars like Fender and Gibson.
The 1986 I was referring to is simply signed.
Sean
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Date May 4 2004 12:15:46
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: The quest begins: three intermed... (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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Ron, perhaps, perhaps. If I were an inexperienced flamenco (hey, actually I am!), I would probably trust a professional's judgement on what a good flamenco guitar is, though. There are some things about a guitar that you won't find out until you reach a certain level. I know nothing about classical guitars, so if I were trying to buy one I would possibly miss out on the characteristics of a good one. Of course, I suppose at that point you could just get another guitar, right? To me this is a similiar situation to the infamous F-T "What Kind of Guitar Should I Get, the Yahama or the Lucida Picado?" thread... My advice to those people, would be neither! These beginners do not have the knowledge to correctly choose a guitar, thus it is hit or miss. I have bought a lot of guitars that I later grew to hate! Now Jon is an excellent player and knows a thing or two about guitars, so that's different. I can play a little too, but I would rather have a pro pick one out for me rather than hope my local Guitar Center or Guitar and Keyboard City is going to be visited by an Andalucian Stork with a perfect guitar in it!
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Date Sep. 24 2004 21:37:01
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: The quest begins: three intermed... (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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One more thing I wanted to add... there is an excellent player here in town named Miguel Rodriguez. As a hobby or a sidebusiness, he buys guitars from Paracho, Mexico, and sells them here. Although a horrible businessperson, he does have one trump card--he plays damn good! He can make the lousiest thing with 6 crappy old strings sound like Paco's Conde. So yeah a lot of people buy them. That does not mean they are good guitars.
Actually, its' kind of funny, one time we went to a pawn shop together and they happened to have two Lucida Picados (this is a low budget flamenco guitar). We played them and he convinced me to get one. The next day he went back and got the other one, claiming it wasn't as good as mine but was still worthwhile. I took it to my guitar guy to lower the action and he refused, saying there wasn't enough break angle, that it would lose too much tone. In retrospect I don't know if this is true or not, but anyways, I brought it back (and actually the guy at the pawn shop agreed with my reasoning, for what it's worth). When Miguel heard I had taken the back the other guitar, he was furious!
He played at a flamenco concert the next month, and a friend of mine went backstage to say hi. The first thing he did was hold up his $450 guitar and crow "Tell Mike (me) I played a concert with the ugly stepsister of the guitar he brought back!"
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Date Sep. 25 2004 0:05:35
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: The quest begins: three intermed... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Good story Mike.
Yeah, as I've mentioned (probably several times) before, when I've been lucky enough to have a shot of some of the pro's guitars, (Like P.Peña etc), I've always expected them to sound incredible, and they don't!
They just sound like good guitars.
I think the only way you can choose a guitar is to try it out.
Honestly, you could put me in a room with ten guitars from top makers, with the labels covered up, and I bet I would not be able to tell which was the most or least expensive. I could only tell which one which suited me most.
I think "feel" is very important, if you feel uncomfortable with the instrument then no matter how good the instrument sounds, you'll never play as well as you can.
However, even then, lots of other factors come into it, like could the guitar be set up to suit you better, or is it something you could perhaps adapt to in time?
cheers
Ron
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Sep. 25 2004 9:58:22
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