Classical into Flamenco

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caravaggio

Posts: 2
Joined: Jan. 1 2008

Classical into Flamenco

Hi
Im relatively new here and have posted once before in the luthier section. My problem is this. I was unable to but a reasonable priced Flamenco guitar,. and stupidly rather than saving my money bought a classical style guitar instead. I'm a bit annoyed as being a player of a variety of styles for 20 odd years and owner of a selection of good guitars both electric and acoustic i should have known better!
Anyway, Is there anything I can do to modify or change this classical guitar to produce a more snappy, attacking flamenco tone? or am I stuck with the its very reasonable classical tones???
I have tried a variety of strings and arrived at Luthier Popular Supreme 20 mediums and experimented with bridge beads.

Any suggestions appreciated, as Im on the verge of throwing it in!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2008 7:49:44

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Classical into Flamenco (in reply to caravaggio)

Welcome caravaggio!

What a great coincidence that im selling a 100% flamenco guitar!

It is a blanca and has an extreme flamenco tone, very traditional.

To your post: ok it is obviously impossible to judge on your guitar. But generally if it was extremely cheap, like under 200 € or something, i would say its useless for flamenco. You could lower the bridge, but if its a classical guitar i am almost sure it has a wrong set up, wrong "string height: over bridge/over fretboard" ratio. It would snap too much at the correct string height over bridge.

There is a Yamaha model often recommended. Maybe its good for its price, but in my opinion it sounds very bad. And the set up is also not good. I would try to get a used but good flamenco guitar. Like mine.

But honestly it doesnt even compare to the Yamaha or other cheap models. I just want to say: no matter which guitar you buy, its really worth it to pay a bit more. You have a) more fun when playing coz the guitar inspires you b) much better practice results coz its easiert to play.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 27 2008 8:11:38

HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Classical into Flamenco (in reply to caravaggio)

well, you can go barbarian on the guitar and do what i did to my old classical lol please, be very careful reading this

i chiseld away teh material f the bridge to lower it. removed the saddle replaced it. then i sanded the polyeurethane off...too zealousy in places lol.

i drilled extra holes in the bridge for a 12 hole bridge, which i quite liked.

tore out the preamp.... good thing to do if you have one, yucky things. tore out the pickup.

shaved the back of the neck. you could use a sander...spokeshave...dynamite.... whatever floats your boat.

then i got a speaker and put it in the guitar and played frequency sweeps for about a day or two straight. that loosened it up a bit.

you dont have to do most of the. the bridge thing would be the first lol. just be careful what you chisel.

also add a golpeador they're like 10 bucks, self adhesive, hard to beat!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2008 18:07:19

alaskaal

Posts: 51
Joined: Jan. 10 2005
From: Chugiak, Alaska

RE: Classical into Flamenco (in reply to caravaggio)

Lower the action and put some golpes on the top. Then play away. I did that for several years back in the sixties and it didn't do me any harm. When you want a more authentic flamenco sound then go after that sound. My impression is that the first flamenco guitars were cheaper "classical" models. Back in the late sixties I had a friend who played very nice flamenco guitar on classical guitars that he picked up around town for thirty dollars or so.

My classical guitar was stolen around '71, so I bought a flamenco spruce top and cyprus back and sides with pegs. It had a really cool sound which I liken to the closest thing to steel strings without giving up the nylon. Had my classical not been taken who knows what I would be doing today. Now I have a whole passel of flamencos, a couple of classicals and a DeVoe on the way.

BTW I really liked Savarez 520Ps on those classicals that I hot-rodded into flamencos. Good luck in chasing the sound that you are after.

Al

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 28 2008 18:44:10

Ricardo

Posts: 14852
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Classical into Flamenco (in reply to caravaggio)

If you are not willing to buy a separate guitar, I would say if you are willing to modify your classical, rendering it no longer appropriate for classical style anyway, then you should be equally willing to TRADE IT IN for a "reasonable priced Flamenco guitar". So that is my advice, trade it in don't modify it. There is a little more to a flamenco style guitar than a low bone and a tap plate.

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2008 7:07:37

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: Classical into Flamenco (in reply to caravaggio)

From what I've read on the topic of classical versus flamenco guitars the fan patterns--the strips of wood glued under the soundboards to produce a characteristic sound--are completely different. A flamenco has less sustain than a classical because of this difference in fan pattern. The tone of a flamenco is also quite different and took me some time to fully appreciate. John O. posted a few clips during the past two weeks or so and I really like his tone for flamenco.

A good cheap flamenco that has been discussed on the Foro is the Yamaha CG171SF. You can find a seller on eBay and get it for $300 including shipping, but you won't get to try it first and some copies sound better than others. Changing the nut and saddle to Tusq or bone are standard upgrades.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2008 16:33:12

andresito

Posts: 377
Joined: Feb. 20 2007
From: New Holland

RE: Classical into Flamenco (in reply to caravaggio)

Flamenco guitars also typically have a spruce top as opposed to a classical's cedar, so the classical has a warmer, 'thicker' sound, as well as a deeper body giving more sustain and less attack. Both kinds of guitar can produce lovely sounds depending on how well they are made, but it's really horses for courses, so if you want your guitar to sound like what you're hearing on flamenco discs, do like Ricardo says and put the money from the classical towards a reasonable flamenco. Maybe if you want a bit of versatility you could go for a negra, for flamenco puro go for a blanca...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 29 2008 20:45:09

ddk

Posts: 155
Joined: Jan. 10 2006
From: California

RE: Classical into Flamenco (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

If you are not willing to buy a separate guitar, I would say if you are willing to modify your classical, rendering it no longer appropriate for classical style anyway, then you should be equally willing to TRADE IT IN for a "reasonable priced Flamenco guitar". So that is my advice, trade it in don't modify it. There is a little more to a flamenco style guitar than a low bone and a tap plate.

Ricardo