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Correcting the neck angle, yes or no?   You are logged in as Guest
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Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

Correcting the neck angle, yes or no? 
Hi everybody

I have recently finished a flamenco guitar but as already mentioned in another post, the guitar has too much sustain. One of the reasons (problems) is the neck angle wich is about 5mm instead of 2mm. This of course causes a high string action which is also not good for playability.
After the guitar is partially broken in, the guitar opens up and the tone became a bit drier. However the high string action remains.

My question is: Is it possible (recommendable) to correct the neck angle by disconnecting the foot from the back and reglue it with the neck being in the correct angle, or is it too much of a hassle or involving too much work?

Any advice or hint is welcome

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2007 4:12:09
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Correcting the neck angle, yes o... (in reply to Armando) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Armando
One of the reasons (problems) is the neck angle wich is about 5mm instead of 2mm. This of course causes a high string action which is also not good for playability.

Is it possible (recommendable) to correct the neck angle by disconnecting the foot from the back and reglue it with the neck being in the correct angle, or is it too much of a hassle or involving too much work?



Of course it's possible. Take the back off, reset the neck and reglue the back. If you're careful you can cut above the purfling on the sides and install a short binding saving you lots of work. I'd have an extra back made before hand in case you break it during removal. The actual job is very straight forward, the hardest part is freeing the back from the foot, after you remove the heel cap you need something like a pallette knife that's flexible which you can heat and gently slide between the back and foot. After you rout the bidings away you use a fine back saw or knife to free the back from the linings. You'll need to saw the ends of the back braces to free them. They are repaired by cutting a simple chamfer an inch or so in from the ends before reinstalling the back. If you damage the foot during removal just chisel it back and laminate more wood on.

The other option is to back taper the fingerboard but 3 mm is quite a lot to take off, it depends on the thickness of your fingerboard.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2007 10:43:11
 
TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: Correcting the neck angle, yes o... (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

after you remove the heel cap you need something like a pallette knife that's flexible which you can heat and gently slide between the back and foot. After you rout the bidings away you use a fine back saw or knife to free the back from the linings. You'll need to saw the ends of the back braces to free them. They are repaired by cutting a simple chamfer an inch or so in from the ends before reinstalling the back. If you damage the foot during removal just chisel it back and laminate more wood on.


Gee...is that all?

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2007 12:06:10
 
Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Correcting the neck angle, yes o... (in reply to Armando) 
Hi jshelton5040


Thanks for your answer.

Well it seems not to be too easy and not just a minor repair.
I actually wondered if it wasn't possible to disconnect the foot from the back without removing the back. it could be probably done by heating the back with a hairdrier above the foot and then disconnecting the foot with a heated angled knive. That would'n't be easy either but easier than to remove the whole back. Nevertheless i'm not sure if that would really work.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 31 2007 1:52:14
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Correcting the neck angle, yes o... (in reply to Armando) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Armando

Well it seems not to be too easy and not just a minor repair.
I actually wondered if it wasn't possible to disconnect the foot from the back without removing the back.


It's not a difficult job compared to some others. You can have the back off within a couple of hours usually and then three to five days to get the neck angle set right, back re-glued and bound. Time required will vary depending on how much damage is done during removal. Of course finish touch up can take weeks. Think of it as a learning experience. Ideally you should check the neck deflection right after the back is glued on and if it's wrong fix it immediately. That way you don't have to deal with bindings, finish and well cured glue. If you're nervous about doing the job it's actually easier to just sacrifice the back and put on a new one. Think of the job in terms of money. What's it worth to have a guitar that plays properly compared to having one that will sit in the corner gathering dust?

There's no way you should try to reset the neck deflection without removing the back. Think about the structure of the guitar. When you change the angle of deflection it affects the entire length of the sides and the top as well. If most of the back is still glued it can't flex.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 31 2007 3:41:59
 
aarongreen

 

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: Correcting the neck angle, yes o... (in reply to Armando) 
I agree with John. If you were to loosen the foot and try to reglue it with the neck at a different angle, the angle of the foot would not line up with the arch of the back, so at best you would have an imprint you could see on the back but more likely the neck would just go back to the original angle.

You are hardly alone in this, if that makes you feel any better. I still glue my back on with the neck attached, although it's morticed on. What the angle eventually comes out to is very hard to pinpoint with total accuracy. I think alot of that has to do with the gluing of the back, you have all those clamps pulling the sides and top down to a level plane that they in reality may not be in, which in effect is raising the neck angle.

My solution is to leave the neck thicker than you need it to be so if the neck angle is too much you can plane the neck back a bit and not compromise your end neck thickness. You see that on a lot of guitars actually. The neck/fingerboard joint is lower than the joint between the head and the head veneer. It has no bearing on the outcome of the guitar, it just leaves you a little more wiggle room and I always like room to wiggle.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 31 2007 4:46:07
 
Armando

Posts: 302
Joined: May 27 2005
From: Zürich, Switzerland

RE: Correcting the neck angle, yes o... (in reply to Armando) 
Thanks Aaron and John for your advice.

I didn't take sufficient care about the neck angle when i glued the back. That should be a learning for me. I know that removing the back can easliy damage it. Nevertheless i've got to try to repair the guitar. It's still better than having it in a corner collecting dust;-)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 31 2007 8:42:13
 
jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005
 

RE: Correcting the neck angle, yes o... (in reply to Armando) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Armando

Well it seems not to be too easy and not just a minor repair.

Forgive me for enlarging on the easy repair thread but I'm thinking of a couple of repairs/restorations we did in the past. One was a Fender acoustic that a woman had painted flowers on and put under the broiler in the oven to quick dry the paint. She burned the whole top out of the guitar. I mean literally charred but didn't damage anything else. It was her brother's guitar and she insisted that it had to be repaired no matter what the cost. It took a couple of days for me to even figure out how to start but we brought it back to original condition. It cost her much more than the guitar was worth.

Another was an 1856 Panormo that had belonged to Julian Bream. It was in an apartment in Germany during a drug bust and the police stomped on it. It was a strange little guitar with ebony back and sides. I worked on it for weeks part time to put it back together. Even had to make little pieces of ebony and bend them to match the shape of the sides to replace missing pieces. We didn't charge even a tenth of what we should have for the work but it was one of those repairs that was so challenging I would have done it for free just to prove to myself I could. The owner donated it to a museum when we finished the work.

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John Shelton - www.sheltonfarrettaguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 31 2007 10:57:00
 
aarongreen

 

Posts: 367
Joined: Jan. 16 2004
 

RE: Correcting the neck angle, yes o... (in reply to jshelton5040) 
quote:

Another was an 1856 Panormo that had belonged to Julian Bream. It was in an apartment in Germany during a drug bust and the police stomped on it.





I hope that guitar learned it's lesson. Run with dogs and you'l get fleas, as my grandmother used to say.:)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 1 2008 1:30:21
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