RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audience at the restaurant to Fu*K Off

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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Jon
I think you've probably developed quite a thick skin now over the years, which is the attitude you definitely need to play professionally. I think 'ol Todd has still to go through that yet!
If the gig's crap and no one is listening, then at least you're getting paid for practising!
A few years back, didn't you used to take your guitar up Plymouth Shopping Precinct and play if it was a nice sunny day?
I definitely think that's a great primer for playing to audiences.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2004 12:41:02

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
A few years back, didn't you used to take your guitar up Plymouth Shopping Precinct and play if it was a nice sunny day?
I definitely think that's a great primer for playing to audiences.

Wow, your memory's good Ron. I shall have to be more careful about what I say

Yes, I 'cut my teeth' busking to get experience long before I ever did any gigs. And you're right, it is a great primer. I actually miss it in a way - I certainly plan to do some more when my CD is ready, its an important part of the master plan

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2004 13:21:20

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Whats going to be on your CD Jon. I did a restuarant gig about a year ago which went down well, playing solid for three hours, buzzed for a week after, my picado was fast and zippy for a few days after the marathon work out
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2004 14:05:58

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Billyboy)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Billyboy
Whats going to be on your CD Jon.

Ten tracks, a mixture of my own compostions and my own arangements of traditional Spanish/hispanic melodies. Probably one cover.

No solo guitar.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2004 14:19:06

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

quote:

A few years back, didn't you used to take your guitar up Plymouth Shopping Precinct

Actually Jon, I was IN Plymouth Shopping Precinct with my family whiling away 4 hours till our connection to Cornwall only less than two years ago, before this Forum started!
Also two weeks later on the way back to Scotland.
I knew of you from your own Website and FT.com
I must admit, I was thinkin about ya! Didn't want to bother you though!

Plymouth's a nice town. I like it!
Nice lot of restaurants and bars down the hill towards the harbour.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2004 21:00:34

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Jon, I'm not snobby toward restaurant gigs. I just avoid them. Around here, they pay 1/3 to 1/4 of what a private gig would pay. On the other hand, I got more attention at restaurant gigs, at private gigs, I'm more backgroundy. But there certainly could never be any of the tension Florian mentioned in his thing. I can see how he was upset that these two brujas were ruining his show.

I never really played for free. I started out as a junior member in groups, the "strummer." Then I worked my butt off to get a rep. It was a bit of a step to "step out" but now I'm much happier with my own show.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 6 2004 21:11:32

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
Jon, I'm not snobby toward restaurant gigs. I just avoid them. Around here, they pay 1/3 to 1/4 of what a private gig would pay.

Same here Mike, but how do you get private bookings if you aren't out there doing lots of public gigs? How do you get your exposure?

Come to think of it mike, I'm out of touch with what you are doing and it seems like things have moved on a lot, which is great. How often are you gigging these days?

Finally, one more question

.. Any chance of posting some of this demo CD stuff of yours? I don't believe I've heard anything by you, and it would be great to hear you play.

Cheers

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2004 8:24:32

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Escribano)

HEHEHE Simon your storys always crack me up.

I just remember another thig that happened to me in a Theatre this one is good if you can use your imagination.

This was in a proper theatre a proper stage, we just ended a Alegria that had 8 dancers so as you can imagine 2 guitars, 1 cajon, singer , palmeros, and 16 feet tapping the sound WAS Loud.

Now when this number was finised all the dancers left the stage and I was soposed to put my guitar in the besides me on the floor on the It's SIDE. and i was soposed to do palmas.

SO its dead quiet ( we have to be extra gentle on stage because everything is miked up to the max) , the audience in waiting for the next number, I go to lay my guitar down on its Side but it Falls doing on of those BAnggggg g everyone looks at me is dead quiet , so I try again, it sits for a split second and AGAIN it falls on its back : BANGGGgg gg I dont know why but that was my mission i forghot all about the audience all i wanted to do was to get the damn guitar to sitt on its side, the other guitarist is just looking at me trying to keep a straight face.

I think the 8th try it worked. realising that everysingle eye in the place was on me I didnt know what to do so I stood up and took a vowl( i hope thats how its spelled). EVERYONE started laughing like crazy, we all just kind of relaxed after that point.

Reading this story now I must admit that it looks so boring but you had to be there IT WAS FUNNY ! it was!! honest

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2004 11:36:33

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Escribano)

Jon, I get my gigs in a variety of fashions, but most of them involve cold-calling to some degree.

1. Entertainment agencies. I contacted them, told them I played Spanish and Classical guitar, then asked them if I could send my demo to them.
2. Art galleries. I had an idea that art galleries might need live music for openings, so I walked down our Main St., which has an incredible assortment of high-end art galleries, and handed out demos and CVs.
3. Real estate agencies. My real estate agency hired me to play at a $5 Mil house, so I got the idea that other real estate agents might need musicians. So I got some publications and am in the process of calling all the agents with listings over $1.0 M. Sneaky, aren't I?
4. Contacts. I am slightly networked in this town with other flamenco types, and actually got 2 gigs this month from my contacts.
5. Wedding place. There is a place that holds weddings that has me on their "preferred vendor" list. So far only 2 gigs, but...
6. Caterers. I have been calling caterers and seeing if they will hire me or refer me. So far I've sent some demos, had some conversations, but no gigs yet.
7. Country Clubs. Supposedly country clubs have lots of events with live music. I've started calling them and trying to get a demo to them.

The factors here are that this is a rich town with lots of rich people and high-end services, of which I can be a part of if I weasel my way in. The way I weasel my way in is by being the best-looking, most professional, and most business-like musician they have ever met. This entails being well-groomed, in shape, wearing clothes as nice or nicer than my clients', taking great pains to be early and cater to the clients' legitimate needs, and having a business sense honed by my degree in business and constant consultation with my businessperson wife. Also, the music I play--a combination of flamenco, classical, and latin pop--meshes very well with the "Southwestern vibe" of Phoneix.

I have only been doing this for about two months, but have gotten great results. In the past, I waited for my partners and entertainment agencies to give me gigs. Now, I consider myself my OWN entertainment agency. I cold-call about three times a week, send out salvos of CDs about once a week. My solo performances have all been warmly received, I have been told several times I was the lowest-maintenance, best musician, they had ever hired. This is not because I am a particularly good player, but because I am doing my best to see the situation from clients' point of view.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2004 17:44:08

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Miguel, which part of the world do you live, someone playing flamenco in a house that was being viewed for a sale would be a bit odd where I live

The being'good looking' thing, I guess Moraito would have no chance

The art gallery thing is a good idea, especially if they are have a display from a Spanish artist
Cheers
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2004 19:23:05

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Billyboy)

quote:

someone playing flamenco in a house that was being viewed for a sale would be a bit odd where I live

Yeah Dave,
That person's usually called a "squatter" where I live.

Mike, I respect your get up and go to make things happen.
A lot of folk would just sit back at wait for the phone to ring and complain that there's not much work about.
Good luck with things.

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 7 2004 19:51:59

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
Jon, I get my gigs in a variety of fashions, but most of them involve cold-calling to some degree.

Brilliant ideas - thanks for posting this. You're obviously taking the whole marketing thing very seriously, which I think is essential. Hard work isn't it? I do a lot of those things too, but tweaked for our area which isn't particularly affluent like yours. I still don't think I could get enough regular private gigs to make things work though, so I'll have to stick with doing lots of restaurant and (yikes) pub work.

Incidentally Mike, I get more enquiries for wedding work via people visiting my website than any other source at the moment. Definitely something for you to invetsigate, I would think.

And I'd still like to hear your demo! Any chnance of emailing me some links to Mp3s if you don't want to broadcast it?

Cheers.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2004 8:30:55

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Ron.M)

Jon,
there's a book called "The Self Promoting Musician" which has a lot of good ideas, not only for gigs, but for developing your career beyond that as well. Phoenix is very affluent, but perhaps if you extended your travel range you could do the same. There's always a way. As far as my demo...ugg, I'm not really proud of it!

The demo has Pachelbel's Canon, Felices Dias (a GK rumba), a Soleares, Fantasia (a Columbianas/Rumba by Chico), and Road 2U (Ottmar liebert). I just listened to it last night and was horrified by the bad rhythm guitar I put behind Felices Dias. Maybe today I will go back and correct it!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 8 2004 15:56:12

Colzo

Posts: 4
Joined: Mar. 16 2004

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Billyboy)

I use a shadow pick up which you stick to the soundboard with a blutack-like substance which doesn´t harm the guitar (it comes with the pick up). you can experiment as to where abouts you want the pick up. I favour it halfway on the bridge and half way on the sound board. It seems to give a more balanced sound between treble and bass frequencies here.

I think one of the toughest gigs I played was standing in for a band that hadn´t turned up. It was in Belfast. Half the audience thought I was the band who hadn´t turned up on time. so they were a bit annoyed. They were all drunk, shouting and there was a group up from the country celebrating the anniversay of the release of the Birmingham six and kept asking me to sing rebel songs. I smiled and sang "La Bamba" whilst my girlfriend danced at the side of the stage. the management paid me off and asked me to leave early. I didn´t mind in the least. I got paid and left with my face intact. I thought it was a good deal. People talking whilst you are playing intricate music is I agree bloody irritating. Especially if, just after you´ve played your best soleares they ask if you know anything by Neil Diamond or that tune that they can´t remember the name of but it goes "da da da daaaa da dah!" For ****´s sake! Respect to Florian.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2004 17:12:53

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Colzo)

quote:

They were all drunk, shouting and there was a group up from the country celebrating the anniversay of the release of the Birmingham six

Now that really is a heavy gig!
Beats practically anything I've heard.

My own impressions are that it would be an impossible task to do an all-Flamenco show for more than 30mins and still have the attention of an average N.European audience.
Flamenco here is for playing in your own room and teaching others to play in their own rooms.
Unless you are a very well known Flamenco artist, capable of pulling the Flamenco nuts from miles around to a single venue you're just making a stick to beat yourself with IMO.
As I said before, the odd number down a Folk Club is about the most folk can take.
Unless you have a local peña, the only way to really get into this art is move to Andalucia.
Which I suppose is fair enough really.
Like, when I went to clubs in my twenties, I would have objected pretty strongly to someone forcing me to listen to 2 hours of Gaelic chanting when I was looking for a fun time.
That's the sad reality IMO.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2004 20:36:50

bailoro2000

Posts: 93
Joined: Jul. 7 2003

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Kate)

" Thank you folks for your kind attention. Our next offering is a romantic Spanish flamenco number inspired by the four young ladies at the front table here. It is a passionate pice of Typical Gitano music and goes by the title ' Calyate sus bocas' which translates as 'Put your lips together for me" (It actually translates as "shut your gobs" but chances are they won't speak any Spanish. Just hope no one else does and spoils it
by cracking up ((-;

Or, in the words of the rumba : "Es por culpa de una hembra, que me estoy volviendo loco"

Jim.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 19 2004 22:22:00

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Colzo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Colzo
I think one of the toughest gigs I played was standing in for a band that hadn´t turned up. It was in Belfast. Half the audience thought I was the band who hadn´t turned up on time. so they were a bit annoyed. They were all drunk, shouting and there was a group up from the country celebrating the anniversay of the release of the Birmingham six and kept asking me to sing rebel songs. I smiled and sang "La Bamba" whilst my girlfriend danced at the side of the stage.

Well I think that wins the prize for 'the bigest balls'

. My scarey gig stories are positively tame in comparison.

I must check out that Shadow pick up of yours, sounds interesting.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 20 2004 9:00:51

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

Amazingly I have just found one of those pick ups I never remember buying, It has two flat penny size disks, connected to a conventional jack plug, that could go into an Amp, anyone know if the sound is acceptable through a cheap busking amp, without reverb
Cheers
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 20 2004 13:36:34

Jim Opfer

Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.

RE: Tonight I told Pple in the audie... (in reply to Jon Boyes)

quote:

I'm interested to know where you guys actually play/intend playing if you don't do restaurant gigs.

We played a gig in a pub a few years ago. Guitar and palmas on a raised stage and dancer down on the main floor. It was converted railway arches with bar in one space and the performance in the other.
The place was empty for the afternoon practice and the sound was great through the PA.
Come that night, the place was packed, what a disaster! I couldn't hear the guitar, I couldn't hear the dancer or palmero and Lorna (the dancer) was down there on the floor, surrounded by all these drunk guys trying to grab her and look up her skirt!
Jeezzz! never again.

Jim.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 26 2004 7:53:44

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 26 2004 14:07:08