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RE: female flamenco guitarists   You are logged in as Guest
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Morante

 

Posts: 1935
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to gj Michelob

quote:


Does any of them match the high standard of the professionals we are spoiled to listen to? No, none of them does!


I judge guitarists by their sensitivity in accompaning the cante. I have heard sevel doing it well in Andalucía. None of the are represented here. Surprise
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2014 17:20:12
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante

quote:

I judge guitarists by their sensitivity in accompaning the cante. I have heard sevel doing it well in Andalucía. None of the are represented here. Surprise


Well, if you feel that anyone failed to properly represent female guitarists here, and did so either maliciously or for apathy and lack of interest in that gender's artistry, why don't you simply propose something we could watch/listen to, instead of protesting?

There are female musicians excelling in every genre of music, breaking free from any traditional misconception. I suppose that some of the best violinists in the last generation are females. On the other hand, I haven't seen or heard any in the flamenco guitar category.

It is not out of callous misogyny, if that was the silly implication, but I am sure I misunderstood a subtle yet elegant point in your post "None of the (sic) are (sic) represented here. Surprise" (?)

PS.:
Incidentally, if I may parse your grammar -and I add that this colloquialism has become rather recurrent and perhaps even acceptable- the subject of the sentence is not "them" but "none" which is singular -as in No One- hence the verb must conjugate accordingly: None of them is.
For a most entertaining debate on this grammatical point see http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=233895
I love a gent from Texas suggesting to resolve the problem by saying, "none of them ain't"

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2014 18:38:23
 
Escribano

Posts: 6340
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante

Can you provide some references, otherwise your post just appears smugly dismissive of those that don't have the opportunity to go to the pena once a week? I know this a mainly US-centric guitar forum but you could educate a little, no? I used to video such experiences in Spain. Perhaps you could do the same with a smartphone and take it upon yourself to share a little? Lots of question marks there Sean but we had an interesting time in Jerez and Cadiz a while ago and your reports, photos and videos would be very interesting. I would love to hear some more with depth, considering your audience.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2014 19:02:37
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to gj Michelob

what about this fandaguillo that just turned up .. or is it too classical ??



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 9 2014 21:57:41
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Escribano

ok maybe not... but there is still Caroline Plante from cananda ...
has a really nice bulerias cycle thing .. here is a Rondeña ...


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 1:02:49
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to El Kiko

the best one ...that i already know many of you have seen before ..is this one ...because ...its fun ... and has all the elements of waht flamenco is really about ..

and everyone here is always sooo critical about ''compas ' in and out of compas .. or losing it .. or ' elasticity .. and all that stuff .. the answer is here .. it comes from how you feel and how you engage you r audiece and friends ... the title is super correct ..

Flamenco como Dios manda
if only more people could feel this in there playing



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 1:10:47
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 2976
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante

Caroline is awesome.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 2:05:28
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 2976
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante

Laura Gonzalez has to be the best though (or is that a male way of looking at things )





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 2:15:42

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante

quote:

I judge guitarists by their sensitivity in accompaning the cante.


I tend to go by how well they play the guitar.

Call me crazy..

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 3:19:30

ToddK

 

Posts: 2960
Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to El Kiko

quote:

the best one ...that i already know many of you have seen before ..is this one ...because ...its fun ... and has all the elements of waht flamenco is really about ..


Finally, a real player! She's got it.. It's in the rhythm.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 3:22:40
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to ToddK

Toddk ...agrees with me .... how did that happen .....

i'm gonna get that on a T shirt ..before it too late ......



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 9:28:20
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3359
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to ToddK

quote:

quote: Morante: "I judge guitarists by their sensitivity in accompaning the cante."

Todd: "I tend to go by how well they play the guitar."


Ziiing! Nothing like a stiletto slipped between the ribs, with the victim hardly aware of it! (Until it's too late.)

Bill

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Who tried to hustle the East."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 11:10:24
 
aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to El Kiko

quote:

what about this fandaguillo that just turned up .. or is it too classical ??


Just turned up? It was the first composition written by an honest to god composer for Segovia.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 13:43:31
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to aeolus

yes , i meant the vid of her playing the fandanguillo just turned up in my inbox from GSI...not the composition or the player ...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 14:15:14
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante

Just a spontaneous thought, without having seen any of the vids linked to above:

I suppose it needs a kind of tomboy for female flamenco guitarist. ( Like that friend of mine when a kid. She was a real chap and the best soccer player of the whole of 500 children. Perfect to go and steal horses with, as we say in German.)

Flamenco is just manly music. Very energetic, explosive and accented.
Not typical for what you expect as female characteristic.

I am alright with finding competent females in all professions formerly understood as male jobs ( besides, including really proficient rock guitarists), but wouldn´t seek for out of all female flamenco players. Even though there will very likely be a number of convincing examples and exceptions out there.

All in all I consider it a male domain still.
Some things might just be that.
... Like the job of a conductor. Can´t remember a popular female case - that would have been praised ...

Or in martial arts .. styles that live from secluded, abrupt movement ( one could say `very rhythmically emphasized´) for the eye, just don´t fit females. Somehow they always look displaced there.
However, with schools that get their speed from blending and even movements females can be just as explosive like males. ... Me thinks.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 14:38:42
 
Gilles

 

Posts: 16
Joined: Jul. 19 2010
From: Amsterdam

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to ToddK

quote:

ORIGINAL: ToddK

quote:

I judge guitarists by their sensitivity in accompaning the cante.


I tend to go by how well they play the guitar.

Call me crazy..



... and of course if they wear the obligatory gitano tocaor hairstyle: a mullet.

Olé on both counts for Antonia Jiminez!








Gilles
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 16:25:49
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante

Wow Kiko, I've not seen that video! I love when people can sing and play flamenco, it's the colest thing ever. She rocked that bulerias, that was incredible.

Ruphus - Tell Ronda Rousey girls are out of place in martial arts. I've trained for years, weigh twice as much as her and I'm still pretty sure she'd whoop my ass. Lol

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 16:31:18
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 2976
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Gilles

quote:

Olé on both counts for Antonia Jiminez!


Nice find. She's great.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 16:36:07
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to ToddK

quote:

Finally, a real player! She's got it.. It's in the rhythm.


I think ToddK is just exhausted, and gave in.

She sure has the Rhythm and the Passion, and even has the "sensitivity to accompany (her own) cante" ... but is this really Great Playing ?

Each of the ladies featured in the assorted videos presented here have enough skills that, if posting on this Foro, would be hailed as some of the finest musicians.

What I meant, however (and thought ToddK meant the same) is that there ain't any female flamenco-guitarist who rises to the level of the Professional recording artists we admire, from Pena to Tomatito, Amigo or Del Morao, etc, or even our own Grisha or Ricardo (leave alone the greatest, De Lucia).

I just do not believe there is any (yet) I would want to have on my playlist, and if there is, she certainly was not showcased in those videos.


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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 18:07:55
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to gj Michelob

noo .. there is tons of them , try changing languages and looking there are girls playing all kinds of instruments at a very high level .. and in all kind of cultures and situations ... the best ones ..like some stuff i put up earlier are the ones who just do it cos it feels right ...its effortless ...

here one ... easy ..warning not flamenco ...but dancable ..



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 18:35:39
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante

GJ did say there's a lot in every other musical avenue just specifically no "female flamenco guitar virtuosos".
I think I agree, I'd be super impressed to see those girls in person but don't know if I'd pay $75 a ticket to see 'em.....

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 18:46:58
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Leñador

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

Ruphus - Tell Ronda Rousey girls are out of place in martial arts. I've trained for years, weigh twice as much as her and I'm still pretty sure she'd whoop my ass. Lol


Yudo doesn´t belong to explosive styles that I was aiming at.
What `soft´moving is concerned, see if you can find out about advanced Wing Tsun ladies.
Yet, despite of such functional effciency, I was about something else. Claiming that accentuated movement / rhythm is not for females, thus apparently scarce examples of overwhelming female flamenco guitarists.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 19:05:33
 
El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Leñador

In the end , i dont know .., i think maybe there are less because girls just dont want to play it ..apart from a few songs to sing and that .....
Maybe I will get shot down for sounding sexist . and after that other thread about all that ...
Maybe girls themselves dont see at an instrument for that suits them ...
if you look for female violinists and piano players , and quite a lot of other things you will find girls in varying quantities depending on the instrument ...

the thing about the guitar ...all types really .. is that when a guy gets one , he is competitive ....

So I can play faster and you .. and louder ,, and put more aggression into it and i am better than the next guy ...ok lets have a play off ...

this probably puts a lot of girls off .. guys being guys .. but some just cant help it ..
sorry

Plus as was looking around at the girl guitarist i see the comments on you tube from guys....
wow yoiu ae so fantastic .. i think you are the best ever , well done it was sooo good ...etc etc ...
but in reality ,, it was crap .. sorry but wear nice clothes and make up smile and play arpeggios of A D and C maj ... and you will get all the nicest things said about you ...
unfortunately none of the comments are useful ...or even accurate ...

now theres me being a guy agian .....and if i wrote underneath all the comments ... ';; this is really bad , please learn some more chords and try to improve the way you play by etc etc ...''
then every other guy after me will jump on me saying ..i am a dick and i am no good cant you see she is trying and all that pseudo protective crap ....

so really you just cant win .....

So good luck to all the female guitarists in the world ....i hope there will be more as there approach is much different ...
but there will always be less ,.. and for some reason will always be regarded differently ...its just human nature that cant be changes much ....

anyway ....now that i will be shot by the crew ... i leave with this .





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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 20:05:31
 
Leñador

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Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante

quote:

Yudo doesn´t belong to explosive styles that I was aiming at.

She's known for judo but her Muay Thai has become pretty world class, you should see her last fight.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 23:07:56
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Leñador

quote:


(1) GJ did say there's a lot in every other musical avenue just specifically no "female flamenco guitar virtuosos".

(2) I think I agree, I'd be super impressed to see those girls in person but don't know if I'd pay $75 a ticket to see 'em.....


Succinct and focused. Bravo Lenador, I think your point hits the nail on its proverbial head.

And for Hell on Heels, these can raise it anytime, strings or cante!






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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 10 2014 23:36:18
 
Andy Culpepper

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From: NY, USA

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Morante

I think traditionally in flamenco, gender roles have been pretty strict with women being funneled into cante and baile while the guitar has remained male dominated.

I really don't think there is anything inherently male about flamenco guitar, or that women are somehow less apt to be able to play it. It's just how things have been broken down over the years, but I'd be willing to bet that in 20-50 more years things will have changed significantly in that regard as flamenco continues to evolve.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 11 2014 0:47:23
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1490
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Andy Culpepper

quote:

I think traditionally in flamenco, gender roles have been pretty strict with women being funneled into cante and baile while the guitar has remained male dominated.

I really don't think there is anything inherently male about flamenco guitar, or that women are somehow less apt to be able to play it. It's just how things have been broken down over the years, but I'd be willing to bet that in 20-50 more years things will have changed significantly in that regard as flamenco continues to evolve.


Agreed. I think it's just parental/societal encouragement from an early age and access to consistent, ongoing training that accounts for the difference.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 11 2014 1:30:08

ToddK

 

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Joined: Dec. 6 2004
 

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to gj Michelob

quote:

She sure has the Rhythm and the Passion, and even has the "sensitivity to accompany (her own) cante" ... but is this really Great Playing ?


Yes. It is in fact great playing.. What exactly do you feel is not great about it?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 11 2014 2:28:41
 
Chilli Fingers

 

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Joined: Sep. 21 2010
 

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to ToddK

I think he means its boring. Take away the singing (which I personally didn't find that captivating) and that just sounds like a beginner banging away repetativly at a cheap $200 factory guitar with no finesse or feeling whatsoever...the playing is awful. And I hate the way she cuts the 10 that's the worst part.

But all things considered they are outdoors busking so she is probably just trying to get volume out of a bad guitar, give her a good guitar and a nice room to play in and it would probably be a difference of night and day.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 11 2014 7:27:43
 
por medio

 

Posts: 289
Joined: Nov. 15 2009
 

RE: female flamenco guitarists (in reply to Chilli Fingers

quote:

just sounds like a beginner banging away repetativly at a cheap $200 factory guitar with no finesse or feeling whatsoever...the playing is awful


That's pretty harsh assessment bordering on nonsense. Sure she's no Moraito but still does a good job on the accompaniment. I wish I could do that!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 11 2014 10:04:22
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