Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





things still blur to me in flamenco - help please??   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
Haithamflamenco

Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain

things still blur to me in flamenco ... 

hola flamencos,

ummmmmmmm,

i have some problems in understading some parts about flamenco,

i am working on my techniques, playing my level falsetas,

pratcing on the compass, i am feeling the dunde,

but,

there are still alot of things that they are blur to tme untill now ,

like:

1. how long should the flasta be in the alegria or buleria or any other style? where it begine and where it start?

2. what are the flamenco vocabulary, like remata? what are they and how can i undertand them??

3. how many compass form iare in the buleria?? why they are diffrente?

4. what dose the key mean? like A major key,or B minor key?? how can i know all the chords of the key and all the scales that match with it??

5. what make buleria de jerez diffrente for the other buerlias??

6. what is vlase buleria??

7. are there diffrente from the old school techniques to the modern shcool techniques??

8. how can i find my ideal finger nails length? and how can i keep is at the same lenght??

answering this qustion will really open alot of doors for me,

please amigos y amigas give me your advices,

if there is any books or article will help, please list it,

thanks all

_____________________________

Bahrain is my country and Andalucia is my dream
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2007 8:32:35
 
Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: things still blur to me in flame... (in reply to Haithamflamenco

I see, so your question is "please tell me everything discussed on the foro since its inception" ... or better yet "tell me flamenco" Well, good questions all, and I'm particularly interested in 4, 5, and 7.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2007 9:39:57
 
Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: things still blur to me in flame... (in reply to Haithamflamenco

Hey, Haitham,

Man what a lot of questions! As you know I'm a complete noob newbie, but I'll pass on some snippets my teacher told me.

1. how long should the falseta be? I think is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string because I think in modern flamenco they can go on for AGES . I was learning a buleria with my teacher recently and he taught me some quite simple ones.

- starting on 12 for 1.5 compas and finishing on 6, then back to basic compas for half. Repeat whole thing with slight variation. So that's four compas.

- starting on 1 and finishing on 10, repeat, then repeat with added extension and variation. So that's four compas too.

Maybe all newbie falsetas are four compas long

2. We should have a glossary! remate is like a cadence at the end of a phrase. Typically comes in solea on 10, 11, 12. I've got tab of that if you want to see what I'm talking about. I can even play it!! Cierre is literally a close - music stops and something else happens like the singer comes in. Must be loads others.

OK over to some guys that know what they are talkin' bout!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2007 10:16:19
 
Haithamflamenco

Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain

RE: things still blur to me in flame... (in reply to Haithamflamenco

quote:

"please tell me everything discussed on the foro since its inception"


mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnn,

lol , i didnt mean that,

its just some qustion i couldnt find an answer for in about 10 years,

Alisa, que bonita, que guapa,

mucho gracias

_____________________________

Bahrain is my country and Andalucia is my dream
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2007 10:25:49
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15032
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: things still blur to me in flame... (in reply to Haithamflamenco)2 votes

1. Any length, it is up to you. And you can fit falsetas together or cut them short as you please. They are usually defined between sections of compas strumming, but if you chose to define them as two back to back then you can name the division point at whatever beat the new falseta starts. A falseta can start on any beat. I usually think of falsetas that start around count 9 or 10, "pick up notes", and of course in bulerias count 3 or 4 can also be pick ups in the half compas.

2. Remate I think of as an ending phrase, it can be rhythmic strumming or notes, but the point is you give the feeling that things are ending. In bulerias the counts 7 -10 are important to close the stuff that was going on (falseta or line of cante, little footwork, etc), and in solea 10-12 as mentioned. Tangos has it's own even though it is in 4. It is a characteristic feature, along with cierre, the literally closing beat or sequence of chords, of flamenco that distinguishes it's rhythm from similar rhythms of other music.

3. Well some say there are a set number, but when you take into account the variations done by modern players, there seems there can be an infinite number of compas variations. IMO there are really just two different grooves, 2x3 or 3x2, but you can mix and match these two fundamental "feels" how you like, WITHIN limits of good taste and style. To learn those limits, you should not make up your own grooves until you have first learned a bunch of strumming patterns and grooves from the maestros.

4. Well, in music theory terms you can learn key/chord/scale relationships by studying the CIRCLE OF 5THs diagram. But in flamenco, the keys on GUITAR as opposed to a piano say, have a special sound because of the open strings. This special timbre translates to the typical "aire" of a form. For example, Taranta in F# phrygian has a characteristic sound, but the same notes on piano won't have the same special sound. That is why the cejilla is important, to change the absolute key/pitch while maintaining the "aire" that the special key affords the guitar.

5. Along the lines of question 3, it is the groove, the rhythmic interpretation mainly, but also there are specific songs (melodies of the cante) that are typical jerez style. But for guitar is that swing or groove that distinguishes it. IF you have Tomatito encuentro, he plays two bulerias. The first one is his own personal modern style, the ending before the credits has the "Jerez" swing. Notice the difference even though he plays some of the same falsetas and remates.

6.Any melody that is made of 3x2 subdivision, that you might force into the compas of bulerias. Just a verbal way to distinguish a melodic composition from a more tradtional style improvisation of unrelated falsetas, that uses the bulerias compas. Typically a valse buleria won't have lots of rasgueado for example, but there is no special rules really.

7. If you consider Paco's "Fantasia Flamenca" from 1969 "old school", then no. There are however PERSONAL techniques that can give a general impression of old or new style, but you will find something similar in old or new players alike. For example, modern players tend to not do the 5 stroke rasgueado so much, but what they do instead, or more often (4 stroke amii, etc), was done by old timers too. In the end it is personal no matter which style you are playing. Most of the techniques of today were well established in Ramon Montoya's day. Check him out. The way techniques are used nowadays, is another story.

8. You experiment. Basically, as long as the tip of your finger is as short as you should go. You can have them longer if you prefer, but it really all depends on your nail shape, and way to play. You keep them at the desired length by filing them and careing for them everyday.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2007 15:14:03
 
eccullen

 

Posts: 98
Joined: Aug. 14 2007
 

RE: things still blur to me in flame... (in reply to Haithamflamenco

[Typically comes in solea on 10, 11, 12. I've got tab of that if you want to see what I'm talking about.][/quote]

Alis, if you don't mind I would like to see this remate.

Ricardo, you are a gift.

Bit by bit the blur clears, this sort of organic type of learning is certainly part of the fun.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2007 18:18:15
 
Adam

Posts: 1156
Joined: Dec. 6 2006
From: Hamilton, ON

RE: things still blur to me in flame... (in reply to Haithamflamenco

eccullen, the solea remate is some variation over this theme:

E||-------0--------------|-------0----||
B||----------------------|--0---------||
G||-----------------1----|------------||
D||------------2---------|------------||
A||----------------------|------------||
E||--0-------------------|------------||


Holding down an EM chord. Common variations include playing that with p-i-p-p-p-i, p-a-p-i-m-a, replacing the second note (the open E) with an arpeggio on the top three strings (in the same beat), a golpe (usually on the second-to-last note, the open B), and doing the 2-1-0 notes in the middle as a pulgar y indice sort of thing alternating the thumb picking the "bass" note with the index picking the open E. In the version I showed, the first two notes are beat 10, the second two are beat 11, and the final are beat 12 (so you typically accent the open low E and the open B). Any variations should fit within that.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2007 19:32:55
 
Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: things still blur to me in flame... (in reply to Adam

Thanks Adam, yes that's the one I was referring to.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2007 20:47:52
 
eccullen

 

Posts: 98
Joined: Aug. 14 2007
 

RE: things still blur to me in flame... (in reply to Haithamflamenco

Yes, thank you.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2007 21:48:34
 
Haithamflamenco

Posts: 927
Joined: Mar. 6 2007
From: Bahrain

RE: things still blur to me in flame... (in reply to Haithamflamenco

RICARDO,

thank u very much,

u are a flamenco bible,

i learnd alot from u,

thanks for taking a time to answer my qustions,

really thanks,

thank u ricardo

_____________________________

Bahrain is my country and Andalucia is my dream
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2007 3:20:30
 
bahen

Posts: 383
Joined: Mar. 4 2006
 

RE: things still blur to me in flame... (in reply to Haithamflamenco

Very informative, Ricardo. Thanks for that.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 6 2007 14:16:31
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: things still blur to me in flame... (in reply to Haithamflamenco

ricardo will you adopt me, or take me as your padawan learner to learn the ways of the force???? lol

_____________________________

[signature][/signature]
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 7 2007 5:14:05
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

9.277344E-02 secs.