Tilting the guitar forward

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>General >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

Tilting the guitar forward

This is one of those things you see most great players do. They hold the guitar so that it is angled slightly away from them. I have been experimenting with it and find it to be a big change. I used to hold the guitar slightly angled toward me. This way gives a much better angle for free strokes, and a less strenuous wrist angle for the left and right hands. More power, less work. The downside is you won't be able to see the fretboard, just the sixth string. However, I don't find this difficult. I have been working on playing without looking at my hands at all, something I believe I will achieve and is not even particularly hard to do. When I perform I like to close my eyes 1) because I don't get as nervous, 2) Paco does it and it looks a lot better than staring crosseyed at your fretboard.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 9 2004 20:41:25

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

RE: Tilting the guitar forward (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

When I perform I like to close my eyes 1) because I don't get as nervous, 2) Paco does it and it looks a lot better than staring crosseyed at your fretboard.

Hey Miguel...NO, don't do that! Especially, while performing. As crappy as I play, at least when I play in front of people, as a performer, you MUST keep your eyes open, and, either make eye contact with people, or look just slightly above their heads while your playing, and just do your thang! It keeps YOU alert as well...

IF YOU SHUT your eyes to your audience, you will lose their attention...(they will start looking at other things around them, instead of you, then everything backfires!! (the compas is shot)!! ;>)

Now, during practice, that's a different thing! Most guitar players practice in the dark...and that's fun...that's when you shut your eyes (because it's DARK) - (AND you don't need your EYES anyway) ... so that's fun...

But, PLEASE, I beg of you to never shut your eyes again, while performing. Let the audience see all the expression of your music, come from your eyes also (as well as your fingers...wrists, NAILS, scales...and don't forget the Heart)! The audience will LOVE it!!! ;>)

PDL can shut his eyes while he performs (he does not have to convince his audience to be there) ... comprende? But, then again, a man must do what a man must do... ;>)

So, that's my two torillias, 1 burrito, and a FREE can of spam!

Merle

P.S. Well, maybe in AZ, where all the FRIGGEN SUN IS....I guess you must NEED to shut your eyes! ;> (but what the hell do I know)? ;>) gotta go shovel the snow ...

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 9 2004 22:50:25

Patrick

Posts: 1189
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Portland, Oregon

RE: Tilting the guitar forward (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Hey Merle,

Did that Polar Bear you were telling me about get his butt off your lawn yet.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 9 2004 23:06:26

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

RE: Tilting the guitar forward (in reply to Patrick)

YES~ !

Any other dumb questions? Where you live, it snow 1 inch, and you PANIC?

And then, we got the forum from the guys on the other side of the pond...crying, "It's snowing here"!

C

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2004 1:20:16

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Tilting the guitar forward (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
This way gives a much better angle for free strokes, and a less strenuous wrist angle for the left and right hands.

Tiliting the guitar forward favours the left (fingering) hand as it places the left wrist in a more comfortable postion (straighter), but generally the more you tilt the guitar outward, the more the right hand is put in a disadvantageous postion as it increases the bend at the wrist. I guess its about balance really.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2004 12:51:52

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Tilting the guitar forward (in reply to Merle)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Merle

Hey Miguel...NO, don't do that! Especially, while performing. As crappy as I play, at least when I play in front of people, as a performer, you MUST keep your eyes open, and, either make eye contact with people, or look just slightly above their heads while your playing, and just do your thang! It keeps YOU alert as well...

I disagree with that Merle, and also partly with Mike. I can't think of any flamenco guitarists that sit staring into the audience. Or other instrument players, for that matter. You communicate with the audience through your music, not through your eyes.

First of all it is quite normal to be looking at your instrument while you are playing it! Paco certainly spends a large proportion of his playing time watching his fretting hand. His video Light and Shade is full of clips of him doing this.

..But equally closing your eyes can help you focus on parts of the music and give a better perfomance, not a worse one. I notice Paco does this when he tears through a fast picado scale.

I find looking at the audience whilst playing can be one of the worst distractions and can take my mind off the music, especially during complex material. People coming and going, other guitarists watching you intently, attractive waitresses.... Its too easy to have your thoughts diverted to what other poeple are doing and thinking.

And presumably, those who acompany need to be paying close attention to the singer/dancers?

I do sometimes glance up at the audience when I'm playing, and certainly look up between numbers (and acknowledge clapping etc), thats very important, but the moments where I've looked up for too long end up in fluffs.

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2004 13:22:16

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Tilting the guitar forward (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Funny but I felt the forward tilt helped me get my right hand better production too.

As far as looking at the audience, gentlemen, I have suffered from such extreme stage fright that it was not even an option. Now, when I play extremely simple songs I can look at the audience. My friend, Lydia Torrea, an American dancer who danced with Jose Greco in the 60's, when Paco was in the group, told me that she looked at the people like they were a "sea of cabbages," because allowing that they were people watching her would make her too nervous. I guess if you look just above their heads, they think you're making eye contact with them.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2004 15:06:17

Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003

RE: Tilting the guitar forward (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

Funny but I felt the forward tilt helped me get my right hand better production too.

I think a lot depends on all the other aspects of positioning - where the guitar is on your leg, how high you cross your legs (assuming modern postion here), what you arm postions are etc.

I sit the guitar quite high up on my leg (ie. waist of the guitar half way along the thigh towards the knee) as I like the guitar higher up my chest. I can't get comfortable with the guitar closer to my body - sitting right down in the groove between the groin and the right thigh like a lot of players - as it just seems too low down. I like the neck higher up. (hopefully that makes sense...)

Jon

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2004 15:34:47

Merle

Posts: 218
Joined: Jul. 6 2003

RE: Tilting the guitar forward (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

As far as looking at the audience, gentlemen, I have suffered from such extreme stage fright that it was not even an option.

Miquel, well I hope you learn how to overcome that, and it's sounding like you did/are. Anyway, I also hope that you know that I just giving you a hard time about shutting your eyes ! ;>)

I don't mean to just stare at the audience, and lose your concentration, but, to at least leave them open so your audience can relate to you....I remember this lesson from music classes years ago.

Also, although a bad example, if you watch "American Idol" (OK, stop snickering because I do), they tell the contestants, "if you close your eyes while you sing, you can forget about it"! I guess it's a presentation thing!!

Also, how could you accompany a dancer with your eyes shut? ;>)

Merle

P.S. Tell Patrick, I said...nevermind!! ;>)

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2004 16:36:30

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Tilting the guitar forward (in reply to Merle)

I heard that Manolo de Huelva used to perform with his back to the audience or behind a screen because he didn't want other guitarists to steal his falsetas!
Really!
(No Encuentro stuff from him!) LOL

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 10 2004 17:26:03