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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Jim Opfer

quote:

Did you go to the web site and watch the video?...marvellous!


Yeah Jim,
The guy's a total Glasgwegian character.

In Parliament today the Shadow Home Secretary Dave Davies praised these guys and said that he hoped the government are considering awarding some kind of honour in recognition of their bravery in helping the policeman.

Other good news is that Glasgow Muslims are planning a protest march and demonstration to show their anger at their religion being used to justify such crazy acts and that English Muslims are thinking of staging a similar protest.

Good stuff!

cheers,

Ron

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2007 21:08:36
 
Bogdan1980

 

Posts: 370
Joined: May 23 2007
From: Frederick, MD

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Ron.M

Tell me about it. And then how do you know who is who. Clearly you should keep an open mind. But at the same time we did and we got 9/11.

Right after that even in my University here in US we had major problems with profiling. But how do you not profile, the sickos that did it were foreign exchange students. Some guy from middle east several days after the 9/11 had balls to tell a disabled US veteran "what's the big deal my brothers and sisters die every day" !?!?'?

How do you figure?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2007 21:11:15
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Ron.M

Sorry I'm not into politics, but I think it's the creepy mentality that scares most western people.

One simple question: When those peace loving moslims , at a sudden critical moment ( war or something ) , have to choose between us OR the terrorists, who's side do they choose ?

Just answer me and be honest.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2007 21:23:39

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to koella

quote:




Sorry I'm not into politics, but I think it's the creepy mentality that scares most western people.

One simple question: When those peace loving moslims , at a sudden critical moment ( war or something ) , have to choose between us OR the terrorists, who's side do they choose ?

Just answer me and be honest.


Thats part of the problem, IMO. "apparently" its written in Muslim law that they should defend a fellow Muslim, regardless of whether he is right/wrong and contrary to the laws/customs of the society he lives in.

Don't quote me on that, but I'm told its true. And thats part of the reason I choose to avoid subscribing to ANY religion... I seriously dislike dogma and hate to see free and rational thought/action replaced with religious totalitarianism.

But not ALL Muslims are like that Koella... my grandfather, for example, was Muslim, and he very tolerant and peaceful man. In fact, if you had met him, you would probably not have realised he was Muslim at all.

Jb

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2007 21:42:29
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2007 21:45:28
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to JBASHORUN

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN
In fact, if you had met him, you would probably not have realised he was Muslim at all.
Jb


Is that good or bad ? I think you mean it's good. But others don't.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2007 22:03:44
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Guest

Ah Romerito. Bush cs. are a strange bunch. But I learned from my grandfather that, if it wasn't for America, We'd be walking around here with funny, little, moustaches and a stiff right arm.

So, for me and my grandfather, you folks have some credit.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2007 22:12:42

JBASHORUN

 

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2007 22:22:38

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Ron.M

...and to top it all off, he was married to my grandmother who was JEWISH.

Jb

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2007 22:55:34
 
d.eduardo

 

Posts: 32
Joined: Jun. 1 2006
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Jim Opfer

Hi Jim,
Do you have an email I can contact you on?
Also live in Glasgow and play flamenco.
Eduardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 2 2007 23:12:52
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Ron.M

Imagine if they came over here and destroyed infrastructure and killed hundreds of thousands and stole everything and said they were doing us a favour because now we are Muslim ?


Gosh I made a mistake there it should have been we go there not they come here and the last word should have been Democratic not Muslim.


There is one reason for terrorism and that reason is occupation.

Go to places and occupy people.....what do you get ?

Anyway muslims are often brown and it is easy for stupid people to keep track of who to hate if we can all make that connection. Why not shoot people in the head for being a bit brown even if they are not muslim or terrorist or arabic. Oops we started doing that alread.

If anyone thinks this last is a nessecary price then they are xenophobic imbeciles.

Anyway Im going to rush off to the TV to see who I should hate and what to be afraid of.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 0:08:10

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to guitarbuddha

quote:




Imagine if they came over here and destroyed infrastructure and killed hundreds of thousands and stole everything and said they were doing us a favour because now we are Muslim ?


Gosh I made a mistake there it should have been we go there not they come here and the last word should have been Democratic not Muslim.


There is one reason for terrorism and that reason is occupation.

Go to places and occupy people.....what do you get ?

Anyway muslims are often brown and it is easy for stupid people to keep track of who to hate if we can all make that connection. Why not shoot people in the head for being a bit brown even if they are not muslim or terrorist or arabic. Oops we started doing that alread.

If anyone thinks this last is a nessecary price then they are xenophobic imbeciles.

Anyway Im going to rush off to the TV to see who I should hate and what to be afraid of.


Little need to take that attitude, GuitarBuddha... most of the people who contributed to this thread are not so ignorant as to subscribe to that mentality.

although if you think "occupation" is the SOLE cause for terrorism, you are misguided, IMO.

probably best to end this thread here.

Jb

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 0:28:28
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Ron.M

I was not angry with any members here I actuall incredibly disgusted with our media.

I think that occupation (and in particular careless cynical and unjust occupaton ) is by far the most powerful incentive in the increase of popular support for terrorism. No others spring to mind at the moment but if there are others then perhaps it would be best not to end without naming them.

I am surprised that I seem to have caused you personal offence and for that I apologise but I do not see how this gives you the right to silence or condescend to me.

If you think that there is no need for the tone of ourtage and sarcasm that I used then perhaps you should read the sun newspaper. Lots of people are and I seldom hear my position echoed on the radio or in the newspapers or on the boob tube.
My disgust is directed at them and at the media and our polititian. Is that not clear from my post.

It is said that all serial killers have blue eyes. I have blue eyes and so did my grandfather. Perhaps we should wear shades to avoid giving the impression to SOME strangers that we believe in murder. Or maybe just explain statistics to them and be proud of who we are if we are good regardless of the prejudices of others.

Anyway ( and by now you must notice that I am angry ) to sum up... there is a need and I will speak when I choose. Also having reread this thread I find certain posts and yours in particular questionable.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 2:50:05
 
Crows

 

Posts: 89
Joined: Sep. 27 2004
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Kate

Kate,

Due to the multi-culturalism issues in most major UK cities, the increasing popularity of extremist, racist political factions, and the fact that the perception is that a minority culture/religion is the blanket that these ****s hide under..........British Muslims need to make the statement.

Sorry if you don't like this Kate, I am not at all racist, but I can see what is happening in MY City, I have seen attitudes changing over the last few years, and the Muslim community really needs to work to prevent a slide into further marginalisation.

Andy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 8:11:03
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Ron.M

Crows, there has been a vicious, immoral and sustained attack no muslim peoples and multiculturalism in our disgusting media. Also there has been a decision to avoid extending rights and entitlements to any minorities emigres or asylum seekers. Perhaps this has been a factor in creating the division of which you talk.

Perhaps we should treat these people with decency instead of making them feel alienated and hated.

Or maybe we could just get them all to wear a sign of their religion on their clothing, force them into ghettos and when we have the mechanisms in place gas them. Some may find this excessive but beleive me we are playing with fire here and democracy and civil liberties are more under threat here than many peolpe seem to realise.

But still I recognise your argument very well from the lips of nasty old tory MP's, a whole league of Norman Tebbits has crawled out of the woodwork airing their racism and transmitting it to the weak willed and xenophobic.These last two groups can now feel comfortable airing their racist views in the new clothes of twenty first centure spin and racial paranoia.


Anyway I dropped an iron on my foor the other day and if all of the household goods dont organise some sort of apology groveling march soon then I am going to send them all off back to curries.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 9:51:57
 
Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Crows

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crows
Due to the multi-culturalism issues in most major UK cities, the increasing popularity of extremist, racist political factions, and the fact that the perception is that a minority culture/religion is the blanket that these ****s hide under..........British Muslims need to make the statement.


Maybe I watch different news channels or read different papers but I have see terrorism condemned by countless muslim community leaders, there have been several peace demos too, like the one in Luton:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/3657153.stm

If by 'making the statement' you mean some kind of bigger, mass demonstration, well let's say for the sake of argument I agree that's a good thing. But by the same token I trust we will see you demonstrating against the military occupation of Iraq and the illegal Israeli occupation of Palestian territories for starters.

...or is it morally OK for the west to kill and maim tens of thousands of innocent muslims but not OK when extremists plan attacks against us?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 10:19:08
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to guitarbuddha

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha
Or maybe we could just get them all to wear a sign of their religion on their clothing, force them into ghettos and when we have the mechanisms in place gas them.


In Holland this is the most popular left wing argument to kill any kind of discussion. I see it's popular in other countries too.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 10:26:12
 
Arash

Posts: 4409
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Ron.M

Sorry to say that but many of you who posted here, really have no idea what they are talking about.

Just one think: Terrorism is a result of the politics of the past 40 - 50 years of "some" countries and not because of a religion!

I am not a real muslim but most of the people of my country are and i know what i am talking about.
99% of them dont even know what is written in Koran! Just like most of the christians who dont know what is written in the bible!

Do you really think that these terrorists read the Koran and then mutate to blood thirsty terrorists for god and Islam? lol

p.s. everytime you get angry about 10 dead american, english or scottisch people, keep in mind that for each "white" man, 1000 muslims are dying all over the world because of US, israeli and british politic.

And dont tell me that muslims are killing eachother and that GB or USA brought democracy to those countries!
Everyone knows that "war against terror" and "democratising the world" was and is a lie!

Oh, but i know, you wouldnt open a thread for the thousends of iraki civilists killed by american or british soldiers because an english, american or scottisch life is 1000 times more worth than their lives....right my friends?

However, better for me to stay out of this political discussions in this flamenco forum.
I dont want to have such comments in my mind and make associations with members, when i hear a nice upload from them.

@Admins, in fact, i think we should keep this place clean from such discussion.
(i also made a mistake some time ago and posted a political post. But that was my first and last time)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 10:52:41
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 11:00:45
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to koella

No Koella it is a point which invites discussion. I said much and invited response, I asked questions and although my tone needs work I was not trying to put a lid on the discussion.

Your post is absolutely hypocritical. You are trying to dismiss my point with nothing to actually add. Did you think about what you were saying at all or do you just love the childish backclapping rhetoric of the lowest common denominator so much that you thought you were being clever?

Arash I too have noticed that westren lives seem much more significant to many than Muslim ones. If it is any consolation then please believe this,it causes me much shame.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 11:05:34
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Guest

Yup Romerito, first we must remove the stone from our own eye before we tell our brother to remove the mote in his.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 11:07:34
 
Arash

Posts: 4409
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Ron.M

@Romerito, yeah i know. I didnt want to generalize and my post was directed at some others.

@Guitarbuddha, believe me, i have many european and american friends. Many members of my familly are living in US peacefully together with americans and other nationalities.

It is all about the politicians and the media who are making many people stupid. It is sad that such a beautiful country like USA is leaded by such people.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 11:14:38

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to guitarbuddha

quote:




I was not angry with any members here I actuall incredibly disgusted with our media.

I think that occupation (and in particular careless cynical and unjust occupaton ) is by far the most powerful incentive in the increase of popular support for terrorism. No others spring to mind at the moment but if there are others then perhaps it would be best not to end without naming them.

I am surprised that I seem to have caused you personal offence and for that I apologise but I do not see how this gives you the right to silence or condescend to me.

If you think that there is no need for the tone of ourtage and sarcasm that I used then perhaps you should read the sun newspaper. Lots of people are and I seldom hear my position echoed on the radio or in the newspapers or on the boob tube.
My disgust is directed at them and at the media and our polititian. Is that not clear from my post.

It is said that all serial killers have blue eyes. I have blue eyes and so did my grandfather. Perhaps we should wear shades to avoid giving the impression to SOME strangers that we believe in murder. Or maybe just explain statistics to them and be proud of who we are if we are good regardless of the prejudices of others.

Anyway ( and by now you must notice that I am angry ) to sum up... there is a need and I will speak when I choose. Also having reread this thread I find certain posts and yours in particular questionable.


Well, I certainly did not mean to "silence you". I just wanted to prevent this thread from degenerating into chaos. It always happens with these controversial topics. My impression was that you were angry with US (ie. the forum members) and if that wasn't the case, then I apologise.

But I say again:

IF YOU THINK THAT OCCUPATION IS THE SOLE CAUSE OF TERRORISM, THEN YOU ARE MISGUIDED, IMO.

And you question my other posts? Do you doubt that my grandfather was a Muslim?! And do you doubt that he drank beer?! he was a real person, a real man, and WHO CARES whether he conforms to YOUR ideals?!

Some people are so far to the left that they don't know whats right any more.

Arash was correct- these threads are a can of worms best not even opened.

Jb

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 11:41:43

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Ron.M

Or if its my views on "dogma and totalitarianism" that you question, then I'll withdraw them. they were just personal opinions and didn't really have much place in the discussion.

Jb

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 12:11:42
 
Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to JBASHORUN

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN
IF YOU THINK THAT OCCUPATION IS THE SOLE CAUSE OF TERRORISM, THEN YOU ARE MISGUIDED, IMO.


Probably not the sole cause, but certainly the best recruitment campaign Al Quaeda could wish for.

I remember when we were tottering on the brink of war, UN inspectors finding absolutely nothing of interest, Bush chomping at the bit and Blair wringing his hands desperately trying to convince us all of this bogeyman threat. I remember shouting at the television, amazed at the naivety of Blair and Bush who couldn't see that we were about to do exactly what Al Quaeda wanted us to do.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 13:13:35

JBASHORUN

 

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 13:39:47
 
Crows

 

Posts: 89
Joined: Sep. 27 2004
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to guitarbuddha

GB,

Wow, Tory MP's, Norman Tebbit.......how did that get deserved???
I'm sorry if you don't agree, and I'm so sorry I posted on your personal thread.
By the way, the iron analogy is very sad.
Have a nice day.

Andy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 14:12:34
 
Arash

Posts: 4409
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to JBASHORUN

James, The 11.sep was not the beginning!

War, Terror caused by US and Israel was already present in the world for many years causing thousends of dead civilist muslims (many more than 11.sep victims).
But the americans didnt take notice of it and ignored it because it was far far
away somewhere in the world!

Until 11.sep, most americans didnt even know what is going on in Palestine,
Israel, Afghanistan and many other countries were USA was "active"!

You have to look deeper to find out the reasons for this attack.

It is not so simple to say: everything started with the 11.sep and to conclude:
"So they started and not USA!"

Dont misunderstand! I am not defending what happened on 11.sep.
It was a very sad day for every human beeing on earth.
No matter if american or not. The victims were innocent american civilists.
I was shocked just like all others and very very sad.

Just want to tell you that your way of thinking is a little bit naive.

However it would take a very long post to explain it.
I will try to do it if you are interested although my english sucks.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 14:12:41
 
Jon Boyes

Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to JBASHORUN

quote:

ORIGINAL: JBASHORUN
True enough. But lets not forget that The Twin Towers Episode happened BEFORE Britain and America were at war in Iraq and Afghanistan.


Not the first war with Iraq of course, and the illegal occupation of the palestinian territories happened in the sixties.

But I think its difficult to deny a huge increase in Al Queada operations since the invasion of Iraq.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 14:13:49

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
 

RE: Outrage at Glasgow Airport (in reply to Arash

Arash, I admit, my knowledge of the situation regarding Israel is limited. Feel free to explain it if you have time. I don't doubt that controversial things or injustices have happened there though.

But from the perspective of "the man on the street" all we see is the terrorism. Its the POLITICIANS who create the foreign policy regarding Israel, not the ordinary folk going about their business in Scottish airports. why not bomb the politicians instead?

I, personally, was not consulted when the said foreign policy was made, so it was something beyond my control.

And even if people HAVE been wronged in the past, blowing up trains, planes, innocent people, etc is not the right way to go about changing things.

Take Northern Ireland, for example... a PEACEFUL solution is always best, IMO.

It seems to ME that what you are saying is that this terrorism is in some way "justified"... is that the case?

Jb

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 3 2007 14:31:00
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