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atocha or flipe or gravina ?
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 atocha or flipe or gravina ?
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atocha or flipe or gravina ? whats the defrence and is it really the quality is defrent in sound and the way of making guitars ? and why the guitars in flipe been sold defrant than the atocha or the gravina ? i really i want you guys to help me with any info cause of the descion .
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Date Mar. 23 2007 19:03:38
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Guest
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RE: atocha or flipe or gravina ? (in reply to Ricardo)
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hello ricardo , i was sure you are gona answer here you are a conde lover and also i admit that you are an excpert in this anyway i was waiting for you ..  , anyway ricardo have ever deal with danzeff ? i mean if he says this guitar is good or excllent does it means this ?? i am intersted to know ,so if you can help i will aperciate too much ,am surethat you know even someone did deal with him before so sure there is an openion you can tell me about, and also from your replay i understod that the flipe seems to be the more original cause it is made by thesons ,but the atocha and the gravina the widos get another luthiers as an example as i knew before from hermanos sanchis or may be from others , please tell me if i am wrong .thankx for the examples you gave me but any way this gerardo so every guitar he plays sure will be from the back room of stock  i wish i can reach it and try them all . 
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Date Mar. 23 2007 22:27:32
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Ricardo
Posts: 14828
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: atocha or flipe or gravina ? (in reply to Guest)
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quote:
anyway ricardo have ever deal with danzeff ? i mean if he says this guitar is good or excllent does it means this ??
No I have not. I don't trust anyone except for MYSELF in this matter, because even guys NOT selling guitars often have a very different opinion then me. That is why you need to try the guitar first, and try different kinds of strings too if at first you are not impressed, to be really sure. Check it for defects, etc. I mean if you were selling YOUR guitar, would you admit, "um, this guitar sucks so you could you buy from me please???" I mean think about it.
quote:
and also from your replay i understod that the flipe seems to be the more original cause it is made by thesons ,but the atocha and the gravina the widos get another luthiers as an example as i knew before from hermanos sanchis or may be from others ,
No. I said they CLAIM to be making the guitars, where as the widows admit they don't. See the difference? I linked Gerardo's guitars, and my feeling is that ALL guitars were made by the same luthier, whoever it may be. My point is FELIPE charge more, even though it is EXTREMELY unlikely that they make all those guitars, just the two of them. Most likely they contract out JUST like the widows, although perhaps to different luthiers, perhaps sometimes the SAME luthier.
Bottom line, TRY IT FIRST, it might be really good. The design plan is good, but who ever makes it is really important. IMO Sanchis Carpio and sons make darn good flamenco guitars. There is another guy making good guitars in Valencia called Manuel Adalide or something, off the top of my head. I would not be surprised if there are several luthiers involved in making the condes of all 3 shops. But I have no direct proof of this other than what my fingers tell me. The only thing I know for SURE is Ricardo Sanchis Carpio is involved in making lower end Conde's for Atocha, and they are fine guitars and comparable in price. Not much extra paying "for the lable" as people say.
One thought I always had was to order a special guitar from Conde bros., ask if I could film the making process, and track the progress. AT the end compare it to the better conde's I have played and see if it really holds up. I seriously doubt, they would allow such a thing, for good reason.
Ricardo
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Date Mar. 24 2007 14:51:22
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Guest
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RE: atocha or flipe or gravina ? (in reply to Ricardo)
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thank you ricardo every thing is clear now .... ...but i still have my endless problem that i am nt close to any shop sells or even in my country ... so if you know anyone sells his conde please let me know A26 OR AF25R i trust your openion my friend .
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Date Mar. 24 2007 17:27:53
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Guest
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RE: atocha or flipe or gravina ? (in reply to Ricardo)
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[One thought I always had was to order a special guitar from Conde bros., ask if I could film the making process, and track the progress. AT the end compare it to the better conde's I have played and see if it really holds up. I seriously doubt, they would allow such a thing, for good reason.
Ricardo
[/quote]
iyes i think they will never allow you to do this even if you payed the double you are right
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Date Mar. 24 2007 17:31:57
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Guest
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RE: atocha or flipe or gravina ? (in reply to Ricardo)
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hey ricardo ... i took the advice from u and begin to plan for it i went to madrid for it was a kind of trip didnt did a lot but at least i bought the conde of my life , at the first day i told a friend of me from madrid i want to visite the three shops ,so he took me to the flipe v , i went and found a great guitars and sure very high prices ,but my friend had another openion that i dont have to hurry in taking descion and after a while i though the man is going to kick us both out of the flipe v  cause we ve tried alot of guiotars but we didnt find the sound i am looking for negra or blanca they look nice but sound wasnt as i want , so we cut it over and thank the man and went out then after a walk we took the lunch and my friend told me lets go to the gravinna shop so we did and i wish we didnt  it was a big shock for me those guitars i ve tried ohhh crap ,,,, and even the rossette of most the guitars wasnt nice and the sound was compleately nt as i wished , then i remmbered the words you told me about the atocha and the video of gerardo nunez , so i told him lets go to atocha now , then we did ,,  ohhhhh nice lady and nice old woman with a very nice smile they asked if they can help me so i said i am lokking for a good negra or a good blanca , the old woman offered me a new blance they have which is wonderfull , so she bring it to me it was very light in weight and looks very playable i hold it in my hands and then i begin to tue it up , it was a surprise for me ricardo it was new 2007 but sound the same like gerardo blanca and signed on the wood and the smell of the polish and the finish and the redish couler ohhhhhhhh thats my baby i tried to hide my feelings but the people there was very kind so i thought there is no need for hiding i was sometimes smilling and other consentrating and other my friend playing and me listing ,and then i told carmen conde the shop owner plz can youbring me also a good negra to try she did wooow wonderfull negra with the orange top and good look and sound but the blanca took my feelings with its sound and brightness and playabelty couler rossette and the black keys wooooooooooow , i thought for a while and then i said thats my baby the old lady smiled cause i turned to kid while i was there and then i took the descion to have the blanca ,they where very helpfull and i choosedthe cibilies case which my friend told me that this is the best casethere and they gave me a great price less than the flipev and good service and they said if i dont like it i can bring it back and take my money , actually if i had more money i was gona buy two blanca not one this is the sound of real conde and couler and every thing i found it in atocha shop, they are great people i will advice people to deal with them more than the other shops , anyway thankx for advice ricardo i own you 1
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Date Apr. 18 2007 15:57:34
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Guest
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RE: atocha or flipe or gravina ? (in reply to Jim Opfer)
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thank you jim for your words finaly i have the guitar sound i was looking for +everything else any flamenco player look for ,and they are really the real conde shop with the great service and wonderfull smile i was looking for , belive me you have to add one for your collection . thank you jim and wish you all the best
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Date Apr. 18 2007 20:57:43
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Guest
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RE: atocha or flipe or gravina ? (in reply to mkhn)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mkhn
I also bought my conde from the Atocha shop. My teacher, Mariano Cordoba, born in Madrid in 1924 swears by that shop over the other ones. I orderd a blanca with the orange polish and its terrific. After having seen the one that my teacher had just brought back from the Atocha store at the time, we called Carmen and I ask, "Ccan you please make me one exactly like my teachers?" and after 4 months it was done and shipped to me. I know exactly what you area talking about. Its got this growl, its very light and balanced in weight. I love it.
Enjoy!
you know jim i now i understood why most of the legends still stuck to them atocha conde guitars besides the other ones for ex: pepe habichuela , moraito , checuelo , gerardo nunez ....etc pepe his guitar was made 1973 cause i ve asked this question ..
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Date Apr. 18 2007 21:12:56
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tmock
Posts: 143
Joined: Jan. 23 2005
From: New York, New York
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RE: atocha or flipe or gravina ? (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
There is another guy making good guitars in Valencia called Manuel Adalide or something, off the top of my head.
Hey, Ricardo.
I have a Manuel Adalid Indian Rosewood negra that I bought from Paco de Malaga last February. (By the way, he told me in a letter that he sold the Guitar Gallery, but I haven't followed up with him yet. Do you know any more details?)
Anyway, the guitar is a pretty good value, and I've played and heard some of his other guitars, which were excellent as well. The setup is not quite perfect, and it's a little bass-heavy compared to the typical Conde sound. However, the mid-range and treble aren't hurting by any means. Paco said Manuel has only recently started solo building, and that he previously worked in the shop of a major maker, but Paco wouldn't tell me who. Paco said his guitars are getting better all the time, so they should be outstanding by now.
Travis.
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Date Apr. 19 2007 2:03:47
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