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Downward spiral into Flamenco
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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 Downward spiral into Flamenco
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This morning I spotted a post on the FT Forum by "El Smurfo" who has just set up a site.
In his "bio" he is surprisingly honest in talking about his life, his successes and failures and his first introduction and now passion with Flamenco.
Sadly, he has received no replies. But that's FT people for you! LOL!
Very interesting though, for this guy mirrors a lot of "dissatisfied" customers of life who have eventually found that success, money, driving the right car and going to the best parties etc is a bit like a Chinese meal...really tasty but leaving you feeling hungry a couple of hours later!
I must count myself amongst these people, in that there is nowhere else I can escape from the banality of workaday life than in the understanding and comforting arms of Flamenco.
The fact that my wife or daughter do not understand it make's no difference.
In fact I rarely talk about it to anyone.
Most of the folk I know don't even know I play guitar...period.
I do know now, after being on the Internet for a few years, that others have been stricken by the same "affliction".
It seems to transcend education, class and income brackets.
(Yeah... and even ToddK! LOL!)
What is it with the power of this music, from a small area in Spain that can change people's lives so much?
Sometimes I think of us as that group of people in Steven Spielberg's "Close Encounters" movie, who were grouped and waiting on the country road for the spaceships to pass.
Certainly, nobody I meet in everyday conversation has the same kind of passion about anything than I think we all share here.
Anyway, speaking of spaceships, I'm looking forward and wishing much luck to the Beagle2 Mars Project which hopefully will be landing within the next few hours.
It fills me with joy that in this age of Terrorism, Military Conflict, Murderers, Internet Virus Makers, "Iffy" Economics and slippery Politicians, that a bunch of underfunded Amateurs have put a project together with no money and against all the odds, just to find out if there is any sort of life on Mars, for no Military, Commercial or Political reason other than our basic human "need to know", just for it's own sake.
Viva Flamenco, Viva Beagle2!
LOL!
Ron
For more Fascinating Facts see:- http://www.beagle2.com
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Date Dec. 24 2003 21:26:26
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: Downward spiral into Flamenco (in reply to Escribano)
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Simon.
Nah! Can't agree with that, although I think you are being your usual joking/cynical self, or maybe had a few drinks, or both.
If I'm being honest and digging deep here, I think it has a lot to do with the physical comfort that modern life has to offer, TV advertising, Junk Mail, Pop Idols, Pizzas, Car Alarms, Ringtones, TeleMarketing and the cheapness and mediocrity of life in our satin lined cradle to our satin lined coffin while millions live throughout the world on less than $1 a day.
The usual Politician's rant of "Before I start, may I express my condolences to the friends and families...lessons will be learned....an inquiry is being set up....you must respect that I cannot go into individual cases" (the Politician's Mantra), with the decline in churchgoing, yet a need for some kind of spirituality etc.
I must admit though, Flamenco has been the ruin of me financially, 'cos once I got the idea, I found it very hard to give my everything to some fevourishly ranting boss driving an XJS and talking about how many millions the Company was going to make.
But I'm certainly not complaining, more glad for it!
It's the sheer Honesty of the best stuff that touches my very soul.
Made me see more clearly.
It would take me hours to even try to explain what Flamenco means to me, but I'm sure on this Forum I don't have to.
I'm sure if you are being truthful Simon, Flamenco is a million miles from Harleys and all that crap.
Maximos Drinkios
Ron
Maximos Excitimos! see...http://www.beagle2.com
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Date Dec. 24 2003 22:17:43
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gerundino63
Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands
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RE: Downward spiral into Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)
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Hi Ron.
Today I was driving with my wife through the flat rainy countrysite.
I had downloaded some montoya records, rather bad and old, (the recording),
I like to listen in the car, very loud, doing that, I said to my wife, emagine, we drive now through spain, ad some old folks will see, and hear us, in big coats, gloves on, listening very loud to old Montoya records..........They definatelly think we must be crazy!
I said, Imagine, you see some spaniards, through the duch country, listen to some old woodenshoe dances, with this lousy weather!
I think, flamenco does more with us, than we think........
greetings, Peter.
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Date Dec. 24 2003 23:29:01
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Phil
Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain
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RE: Downward spiral into Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)
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quote:
Would it (Flamenco) be quite the same if we shared it with our workmates?
No, Jim, it wouldn't. Why? I have an opinion as to why, but I've always said that I'd like to hear what a psychiatrist would have to say about people that embrace a music that is not only foreign to them, but not extremely popular in its country of origen. As different as we are, I think we all share something at a very profound level. I would bet that most of us are not crowd followers. We're not anti-social, but we tend to do what pleases us without much concern that our friends and relatives have no interest in what we're doing. We don't proselytize and try to convince others that Flamenco is something that they should embrace. We've found something that we like, and we don't give a rat's ass if anybody else likes it or not. We are very individualistic, which is probably why there's so much arguing on most Flamenco forums. And I'll even go so far as to say that we probably have higher I.Q.'s than the general populace. I hate to sound elitist, but I truly believe what I've said above. Now, which one of you big-headed, individualistic bastards wants to contradict me? 
Phil
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Date Dec. 27 2003 0:43:14
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Jim Opfer
Posts: 1876
Joined: Jul. 19 2003
From: Glasgow, Scotland.
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RE: Downward spiral into Flamenco (in reply to Ron.M)
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Hi Ron,
Pop music is glam and all on the surface with no depth. It needs mega promotion and mega sales and millions of folk to soak it up. I never could understand why everyone sings with an American accent and often wondered if our friends in America notice this as we should do here in the UK.
Flamenco however, is inward and the deeper you go the greater feeling of solitude, it's a personal experience and can't be shared, even playing with others, be it dancers, singers or other guitarists, it still comes down to you and how you feel and what's in your head.
Every time I see a video with one of the 'greats', just following his every day life, there always seems to be an aire of solitude, a kind of sadness that can't be shared or lifted, it's almost a cross to carry in return for the gift.
I got a DVD of Paco and the camera follows him around all over the place, but he's afflicted by this solitude as well, living in Mexico and spending hours just sitting playing, trying to find new things. Nobody can help him it has to come from inside.
The thing is to have good friends and to know that others understand.
Cheers
Jim.
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Date Dec. 27 2003 11:32:05
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Downward spiral into Flamenco (in reply to bailoro2000)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bailoro2000
Imagine this for a frightening thought: Suppose all your family and friends were into flamenco. In the same way we disagree on just about everything in life, with everyone having a different take or slant, it would suddenly lose its charm, at least for me.
By knowing just a few hundred people from around the globe , most of them we may never meet, we can share an afficion that most of us cant explain being hooked to. Would it be quite the same if we shared it with our workmates? There is a slight Zen quality in flamenco that lets us look inwards instead of out, and find our own inspirations without guidance or opinions from others.
Jim.
Jim,
hmm, I don't buy it, at least for myself. I do play professionally, and some of my closest friends are musicians as well. There is a difference, of course. When you realize that 90% of music is a system that must be learned, it loses much of its mysticism. It's kind of the difference between being a fan who loves music, who knows nothing about how the music is made. When that person learns about chords and time signatures and scales, there is something lost--innoccence. It's why adults can't enjoy Disneyland to the same degree as kids. But we adults have our own pleasures.
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Date Dec. 27 2003 21:56:36
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bailoro2000
Posts: 93
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
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RE: Downward spiral into Flamenco (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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"It wasn't until Garcia Lorca and his cadre that flamenco began to get a bit of legitimacy. But this very Spanish art would have gone the way of Ragtime if it weren't for inquisitive Euros and Americans! quote:
"
Hey Miguel, my turn to do a little not buying (-; :
Spanish "Senoros" hired flamenco musicians to sing and play for them long before Garcia Lorca's resurgence of the art. Civil war drove the flamencos into their shells to some degree, but spawned a whole new range of cantes from it. Flamenco isn't exactly a big time thing outside of Spain even today, except amongst those who have become afficionados or those who cling to the stereotype " Strumming guitars, dark-eyed gypsy girls, tight-trousered male dancers and stacatto dancing" image of the country.
Theatre flamenco and dance shows, particularly those portraying Lorcaesque storylines are what are mostly popular with the general public, even in Spain. Intoduce the cante aspect and the interest level wanes considerably except in the south. In fairness, solo guitarists recordings have raised the level of people taking up that branch of the art. Dance too, through the medium of classes has had a hand in things.
My whole point is that flamenco is having its biggest upsurge for years, not outside of but inside Spain (unfortuanately, fusion is one of the reasons) but whilst it may have gone the way of ragtime outside of Spain, I think you would have a hard time selling that
story to the flamencos who live there. Lorca lived in Granada and, although he is revered as a literary talent in Spain, his views on flamenco might not be shared in other areas, even by the Gitanos. Even Paco de Lucia is more revered outside of Spain for his playing skills of guitar then inside it for his flamenco. Flamenco may have stayed in the pueblos but it can never be classed with ragtime. This is, of course, as usual, just my opinion. ((-;
Jim.
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Date Dec. 27 2003 22:54:25
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Not sure about his strategy for a web site, though. A little personal and that can get out of control, down the line; if you know what I mean? 
