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RE: What is the essence of flamenco?   You are logged in as Guest
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[Poll]

What is the essence of flamenco?
Cante
  65% (13)
Toque
  35% (7)
Baile
  0% (0)


Total Votes : 20
(last vote on : Jun. 19 2007 10:41:02) 
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Guest

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete) 
Sonikete, i think it would only be natural that a dancer gets into dance first and foremost a guitarist the guitar and the singer cante. What could flamenco not live without, well these days guitar. A dancer can dance without guitar but theyre not going to be able to do a 1-2 hour show on theyre own same for singing. They could, but i dought they would hold the audience the same as they would with a guitar, in fact guitar is probably the only single thing in flamenco that could do a show completly solo and still hold the audience for 1-2 hours.

Again its got to do with your own perspective, from a cultural and historical angle i aggree, cante. But this doesnt mean i place less importance on guitar. It really dissapoints me when you come accross this attitude from some dancers like your just a whipping boy or music box for them, and they feel in some way they have to assert theyre flamenconess over you and put u in your place. I know its natural and commonplace but i dont like social pecking orders of any kind.

After i posted this i realise while i was doing it the point had been covered sorry for repeating same point
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 22:48:44
 
sonikete

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Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
quote:


Again its got to do with your own perspective, from a cultural and historical angle i aggree, cante.


I was talking from a cultural and historical perspective.

I already explained my views and clarified my position about this and this poll came from a discussion with ricardo where i said i thought that in spain cante is number one for most aficionados and outside of spain was the guitar.

So ricardo said - do a poll! And i did.

I never said that i had any disregard for sologuitar or dance, neither have i said that sologuitar isnt flamenco, or that a guitarist was in any way less worth than any of the other expressions.

All i ever said was that traditionally cante is the foundation all these other forms of expression gravitates around and that without cante they would be crippled. Nothing more or less.



  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 22:57:23
Guest

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete) 
quote:

I never said that i had any disregard for sologuitar or dance, neither have i said that sologuitar isnt flamenco, or that a guitarist was in any way less worth than any of the other expressions.

I didnt thinks u did either, sorry i think i went off on a tangent about attitudes that a guitarist can come across when accompanying. I didnt mean to imply that was your attitude. I too voted 'cante' from a cultural and historical aspect.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 23:01:27
 
sonikete

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RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
I didnt take it the wrong way, but i realize that i need to be very precise not to be misunderstood and i try to.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 23:05:38
 
Florian

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RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
quote:

I didnt take it the wrong way, but i realize that i need to be very precise not to be misunderstood and i try to



hum ?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 23:11:43
 
sonikete

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RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 23:12:29
Guest

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete) 
I guess one could argue that flamenco was never ment to become a proffessional performance art at all. It was born as a form of expression for gypsies and the poorer class, and they just happened to use it as a way to earn money as well. But in its 'pure' form it was theyre vehicle for expression and an identity. So one could argue that any proffessional flamenco no matter how good has lost its 'essence'. OOHHH **** that might open up a can of worms . I am of coure been hypothetical and subjective here.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 23:13:25
 
sonikete

Posts: 735
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From: Sweden

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
Yes sure. there are a lot of other aspects of it too when it comes to commersialism and tradition.

By all means open up the can of worms, thats what makes this an interesting place
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 23:17:58
 
Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete) 
romerito i hope u dont mind, i just quoted u and took out a word or 2 just to make it eazyer to follow for myself
quote:

The essence of flamenco is to live from a very young age. To accept the resposibility of the flamenco way of life .

Wake up in the afternoon, play (dance or sing-whatever you do)
eat lunch. Drink some beer with cousin. Take a siesta, then go for a walk and whistle at the women.

.


Just call me Moraito

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 23:23:24
Guest

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete) 
I of course love proffesional flamenco What about the whole post punk movement? its huge but i bet sid vicious would roll over in his grave if he new how commercial it had become (incidently im not into punk and especially not post punk)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2006 23:24:59
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2006 0:57:30
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2006 1:00:46

ToddK

 

Posts: 2961
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RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
If a tree falls in a forest, and nobody's around to hear it, is it flamenco?

If a thread gets started, and just goes in circles, shouldnt you be practicing?



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2006 1:18:09
Guest

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to ToddK) 
I dont understand, r u referring to me? i already apologised for repeating same point. By the time i replied a new post i hadnt seen was there. So ill say it again, SORRY FOR REPEATING POINT is everything o.k now? merry christmas
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2006 1:26:09

ToddK

 

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RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
I wasnt speaking to anybody in particular

I dont even know if you're referring to my post..

I thought my "if a tree falls" joke was pretty creative, come on!!!!

Hey, what if Anders got hold of this tree, and made it into a blanca, then
would it be flamenco??

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2006 1:35:49
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2006 1:41:41
 
Francisco

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From: SW USA

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest)1 votes
I still think my 'vibration' suggestion is most valid. It's the 'essence' of everything....if you're down with string theory.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 25 2006 1:43:58
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14883
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete) 
quote:

and this poll came from a discussion with ricardo where i said i thought that in spain cante is number one for most aficionados and outside of spain was the guitar.

So ricardo said - do a poll! And i did.


Not exactly. What happened was we talked about a type of modern falseta when played in a solo, might not be considered "flamenco" where as if used in between letras of cante, it MIGHT be considered "flamenco" by some aficionados. I said you would get differing points of view. YOU said that in Spain you would get more "yes it is flamenco" answers regarding that modern falseta, in the cante context vs the solo context. My point was you would get the same differing points of view IN OR OUT OF SPAIN. So I said you should poll the people IN SPAIN ONLY to see if you are right or I am right.

This poll "essence of flamenco is..." has nothing to do with that.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2006 3:11:33
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Ricardo) 
The essence of flamenco, for me, is "duende". That does not always mean that if there is no duende, it is not to be called "flamenco", but that is sort of the point of doing flamenco. Not always easy to find a performance where the "duende" is guaranted, but sometimes it gets captured on tape. Like here, everyone into flamenco would feel it watching this:

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2006 6:04:48
 
duende

Posts: 3053
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From: Sweden

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
olé I like that "competition" ´tween Beni and Manolo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2006 6:48:44
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2006 6:48:44
 
sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
quote:


This poll "essence of flamenco is..." has nothing to do with that.


I made the poll so i know what its about, and if anyone has the slightest interested in this anymore they can read the thread themselves;
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=10774&p=1&mpage=11&tmode=1&smode=1
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2006 10:16:08
 
Doitsujin

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Joined: Apr. 10 2005
 

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
I just saw manolo carcol and remembred my old musictapes with mairena and co. I have to say, that I like the old singing much more than modern. They have some special flair. Old men well dressed and the hair waxed-back. Very very cool. No youth hang around and try to be cool. Just oldtimer.^^ I like this singing most. And in that case, its no problem that he letras are damn bad poetry. It sounds real from the mouth of these old people.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2006 10:59:14
 
sonikete

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From: Sweden

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
I agree there is something timeless about it and i have a feeling those old recordings will last longer than any topselling "new" flamenco pop will.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2006 11:19:27
Guest

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 28 2006 16:12:57
 
sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
Personally, i love Camaron, Duquende and Montse Cortes as well as older heavyweights but i guess it will take a while until a new Camaron appears, so its nice to see that some in the younger generation continues the traditional cante.

Its funny Pitingo sounds like an old cantaor i play with sometimes who lives here, i like that style as well.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 29 2006 9:45:57
 
duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to sonikete) 
quote:

Its funny Pitingo sounds like an old cantaor


Thats funny cause it was my first reaction to him.

He sound more like Pepe Marchena/juanito Valderama than Camarón
I also hear a lot of Manolo Caracol in there.

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 29 2006 10:17:04
 
sonikete

Posts: 735
Joined: Jan. 9 2004
From: Sweden

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
quote:

He sound more like Pepe Marchena/juanito Valderama than Camarón
I also hear a lot of Manolo Caracol in there.


Yes, that was my impression as well.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 29 2006 10:29:46
 
duende

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From: Sweden

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to Guest) 
Long live the snail!

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 29 2006 11:37:11
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14883
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: What is the essence of flamenco? (in reply to duende) 
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 30 2006 14:06:51
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