Bulerias count

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Bulerias count

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Alejandro

Posts: 2
Joined: Sep. 6 2003

Bulerias count

Hi amigos,

Here is a question on Bulerias. Well, while playing Bulearias I do the foot tap on accented beats 12,3,6,8,10. As long as the falseta or compas starts on 12 I don't have a problem with it, but what about those falsetas which starts on 1? The sense of music is complitely different now. Should I continue with the same foot tap as before?

What about golpe and foot tap? It seems that sometimes it's very hard to do these both techniques simultanieously, especially if the golpe is done out of the accented beats which are marked with the foot tap?

Best regards to all
Alejandro

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 1 2003 21:40:38

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Alejandro)

Tapping your foot can tie you in knots, It is not essential to do it all the time, some falsetas are so demanding, tapping your foot during them would take your mind off the techneque required for a tricky falseta, personally, I have to have a mental note of those falsetas that start on 1 as I cannot tell just by listning to a buleria, although the falsetas that strat on 11 or earlier are more obvious. The Falseta that starts on 1 I just add an extra rasguado stroke before the falsetas begins, I would like to know if It is common to tap 1 2 4 5 7 8 10 11, I can do it with the Al Golpe style but the modern stle I find it impossable.
Cheers
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2003 10:53:07

el ted

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Alejandro)

Oh no!! A question on bulerias! This one could run for ever! a simple solution (if that is possible in bulerias) is to do what I did and buy a programmable electronic metronome, and then play along with it for a couple of years!
Good luck! You should find in time that you absorb the rhythmn and it will become almost instinctive.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2003 12:22:09

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Alejandro)

Al,
there are several ways to tap your foot, you might try doing the 12 3 6 8 10, the 12 3 6 9, the 12 2 4 6 8 10, or the 1-2, 4-5, 7-8, 9-10. These are the rhythms that most of your falsetas will match up with. It may seems awkward, but just keep doing it and you will get it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2003 14:20:39

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Rota, Spain

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Alejandro)

quote:

Should I continue with the same foot tap as before?

Like Billyboy said, tapping your foot is not essential and I've never seen any guitarists that tap continuously and consistently. They seem to do it occasionally in little spurts. One time during a lesson my teacher said to me, "Stop tapping your damn foot, this isn't a dance class."

Phil

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2003 17:57:39

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Phil)

A metronome Is absolutely essential, unless you live with a Palmero, or accompany dancers regular, without the 'Flamenco Master' I would be absolutely lost, and would have given up ages ago, I cannot recommend this program enough, it’s a work of genius, I’ll have a pint of ‘Heavy’ Ron.

Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2003 18:26:38

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Alejandro)

Alejandro,
All the above advice is great and absolutely true.
Your foot is just something to help you...not part of the playing.
Do whatever feels right to keep you in timing.

There is no "key" to Bulerias.
Just experience.
The more experience you have, the more you can syncopate and jazz up the rhythm.

Most "foreign" players work out all their falsetas first with regard to timing.
Then after they've got them down after many months of practise enjoy playing then in front of a fellow foreign player with an attitude of " Yeah, I just thought that one up just as I was playing there!"
Try them out in a Jerez juerga and see how far they get!! LOL!

So don't worry Alejandro. It is difficult.... Very difficult.
But time and familiarity helps.
Definitely do not listen to guitar solos.
They will not help you a bit.
Listen to some Traditional stuff with cante and practise clapping and tapping your feet to it.

A fellow learner,

Ron

PS Dave... is that Younger's 80 shilling or McEwans?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 2 2003 21:37:36

Guest

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Alejandro)

You say you're counting from 12, but what about falsetas that start on one.

Well, 12 is 1. Those falsettas you're thinking of that start on one, well, they can
start on 12. The beats arent offset, just the count.
You can count from 5 if you want. It doesnt really matter.

Flamenco Master allows you to set it up from 12 or 1.

I like to count from 1. Never understood the 12 thing really. This long, rather complex
12 beat measure usually seems to take a long time to internalize, especially if you didnt
grow up in Andalucia. So , dont worry about tapping, just order Flamenco Master,
and settle in for the longest rythym study ever!!!

Toddk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2003 0:23:09

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Alejandro)

I had a friend who also played guitar and would tap his foot. He would tap on the up beat, downbeat or somewhere between the two, either leading or lagging. He played great compas – his foot just was something you would never look at or you would wonder what planet you were on!

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2003 4:01:51

el ted

Posts: 466
Joined: Nov. 13 2003

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Alejandro)

There you go Alejandro. I said this one would run and run! I'VE certainly learned a thing or two myself. the best bit of advice so far that i've seen is the bit about ignoring falsetas, i totally agree! i used to bolt the compas on the back of my favourite falsetas too!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2003 7:38:37

Billyboy

Posts: 389
Joined: Aug. 18 2003

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to el ted)

80 shilling is one of my favorite bottled beers, along with some of the cracking Orkney's Island beers, beautifull. Arran blonde is also a nice wheat beer. I wish they had it on draft at my local.
Cheers
Dave

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 3 2003 11:45:45

Guest

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Alejandro)

I am currently working with my teacher on the foot tap... He taps on the 6's... In Spain he found many Gypsies tapping on the 2 and 3 on a 3 count... There are probably many ways of tapping and it all depends what works for you... I like using the 6's although I still on the steep side of the learning curve on the foot tap as I spent years practicing without it...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 30 2005 18:34:08

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Guest)

2's and 3's is the way to go IMO.
The worst IMO is to tap unevenly, unless the falseta really feels that way.
Generally, for compás & chording rhythm, 2's I find better...
The closer you get to a steady beat, independent of where the syncopation is going then the better rhythm you are going to have overall.
If you have to tap your foot to tell you where you are in the compás cycle, then you still need to listen and absorb it more IMO... It really does take time, so don't get disillusioned.
Your foot should really just be responding to the pulse..and your internalisation of the structure should tell you where you are.
Not that I can do this freely, under all circumstances...
But it's getting better!

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 30 2005 20:37:30

Phil

Posts: 382
Joined: Jul. 7 2003

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jul. 2 2005 14:50:09

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2005 14:48:19

Guest

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Ron.M)

So Ron, when you tap 2's and 3's, do you then start at 1 or at twelve (1 tap tap or 12 tap tap

)

If you do the first, it makes absolutely no sense to me

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2005 17:37:47

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Guest)

Anders,
(BTW...Really looking forward to your guitar coming this week!!

)
No, what I mean is keeping a rhythm, be it in 2's or 3's...
12, 2, 4, 6, 8 , 10...
or ..
12, 3, 6, 9...
Really basic and simple.
Something that's in the pulse, and not a technical exercise in footwork...
The rest you do with your hands and ears IMO.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2005 19:42:41

Guest

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Alejandro)

I fully understand what you say Ron, but since you are using numbers, I think it's important that you emphasis if your 1 is on 1 or on 12... Sounds absurd, but it isn't. The thing is that 12 is the first beat in a bulerias compas the way you've just explained it, and that 1 is NOT the first beat.
Again, I follow you completely, but I know that a lot of people get extremely confused when we discuss these things.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2005 20:28:58

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Guest)

Anders,
To my mind there are two different sections to Bulerias.
The "chording" compas, which feels like it starts on beat 1...
1,2, 3 ..7,8..10
and "falsetas" which most often jump in a beat early, on 12, although they can start anywhere.
Singing, however seems to start on 12.
I suppose the best way of understanding Bulerias IMO is to forget guitar completely and try to sing your favourite Bulerias in your head, without guitar.
Then the timing issue becomes clearer I think.

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 2 2005 22:12:08

Guest

RE: Bulerias count (in reply to Alejandro)

quote:

The "chording" compas, which feels like it starts on beat 1...
1,2, 3 ..7,8..10

There you see, in the end we did not agree. This is what I call old fashion bulerias count. From PDL's second or third album (cant remember) and onwards, my feeling of bulerias "chording compás" is starting on 12: 12 .. 3 etc 10.

This also makes for the posibility to do the famous 2 count (look at those threads), where the 3 funcions like a syncopation and hence gets even more accent.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 3 2005 8:59:26