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Flamenco 13...She's done!
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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 Flamenco 13...She's done!
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Okay….. She’s done! (sorry, this is kind of long..)
Spent most of yesterday tuning the guitar in to finish; re-checked the frets, re-crowned where I had to file again, then I did my final sanding and hit the polisher.
That done (and inspected by Bob), who was quite impressed at the finish quality and look of the KTM-9 water-based lacquer. It really does finish out quite like French, and the top (French’d) came out beautiful.
I then set the pegs (peheads.com), which were a bit of a pain in the ass, and I ended marking the back side of the head in spots. Damn…Well, can’t see it, anyway, but still….. Maybe one day I’ll fix it. Not bad – just not perfect..
Then set the flamenco tap plate. THIS is a royal pain in the ass, and you better get it right the first time, ‘cause it ain’t comin’ off! Got it on right, but the cutting around the sound hole is less than perfect, but I cleaned it up a bit and it’s more than acceptable, now. I also did set a thin strip behind the bridge to protect from string-pop. Mixed feelings about that, but if a string goes, it’s less noticeable than a big hole in the top! I also believe in the theory of NOT butting the tap plat to the bridge, so I used a thin purfling strip to offset from the bridge by about 1mm.
Made the head and saddle nuts…..and it was time to string. I used a thin straight edge that fit into the string slot to check my heights, and then I strung carefully. After a few strings were brought to tension, I checked my heights. Removed the saddle, and lowered a bit. Brought it up to tension again, and all looked good, so I finished the stringing.
Head nut height is perfect, and I’m just under 3mm off the 12th on the low E, with the 'perfect buzz' when hit hard. Off the soundboard, I’m right about 9mm, which is higher than many shoot for, but the plans were 10mm, and I’m very comfortable with those dimensions, as I have long fingers.
The headnut is 54mm wide, with the high E offset from the edge of the fretboard 5mm. Takes a bit of getting used to, but I like it because the E doesn’t slip off the edge when you pull a note on the far string.
Sooooooooooooooooo??!! So how does she sound?
Well, the first notes seemed slightly odd (maybe I was just terrified and excited?), but within minutes she began to settle in and open up quickly. She has TREMENDOUS power – which will make a great, unaided accompaniment guitar, and she’s now showing she has that dry, punchy, ‘Spanish sound’, which is what I so hoped for....and yet she is very 'even' across the strings. Even the G has great punch, without compensation.
So I got home, and I brought it over to my neighbor, Randy Pile, a concert classical guitarist, who owns one of ‘Little Pepe’s’ (Romeros) guitars, and 5 Miguel Rodriguez (plus about 5 other guitars). His friend, Gurd Wuestemann, another touring concert virtuoso, is visiting…
They are both rather stunned! Both at the workmanship and finish, and the playability and sound of the guitar. Gurd is also a builder and cannot believe what I’ve done on a first effort (I’m all smiles!!!) They both play a bit of flamenco, but love the tones and power, and all the way up the neck, nothing is dead. Gurd played a piece right up to the 19th and said; “Amazing – and it’s only a few hours old!”
Gurd told me that he has seen many $4000 instruments by builders that don’t compare (the workmanship), and he does not praise lightly, as he is sponsored in part by Robert Ruck, and knows what a good guitar takes.
Me? Wow….It’s almost surrealistic to me. “I built THIS guitar”???? You know? It doesn’t quite seem real! Lol…. Weird. I’m kind of blown away that it’s receiving the kind of praise it is, already, but I look at the whole package and it’s hard to see the process as having come from my hands. I told luthier Bob Hein this when we finished, and he said; “You had the guidance, but it was your skills and patience (something I'm short on...) that made this as good as it is”…
Not trying to boast here, as I’m in a bit of a daze, but just trying to give you guys (and girls) a better idea of what the whole thing is/was like. Like ordering a guitar online or something; no way to know exactly what you will get. You can even hear these soundclips they add, but still….Hard to translate into words.
UPDATE: I wrote this this morning, then went to a flamenco dance class to accompany. 2 other guitarists there, Agustin ‘El Moro’, who is left-handed, is the main guitarist, and was floored at the power and tones in the guitar. Just had his mouth open the whole time!… lol….I don’t know what to say, other than it was a LOT of hard work, incredible thanks to Robert Hein for the opportunity, patience, guidance, and the use of his shop. I just went out and bought 2 Gift Certificates at his favorite restaurant and another bar and grill, trying to say thanks in some small way.
Luthiers??? I have SOOOO much respect now for what you guys accomplish on a consistent basis! Painstaking work!
Hope I was entertaining, and passed along some possible info to others. Again, thanks to all with the feedback, to Tom at La Falseta, for his help and taking the time to share, and to Tom Blackshear, for drawing these plans.
I will one day soon – when I have access – possible record something for the board..
Muchas Gracias!
Rand Hogen (my name!)
Ramón
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Date Aug. 6 2006 22:50:54
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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RE: Flamenco 13...She's done! (in reply to Ramón)
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Hi guys!
Taking a practice break to read the comments! THANKS! I also posted in Audio/Vid uploads, as I'm looking for the guitarist on this guajira (and maybe tabs to help speed things up a bit!!), as I try to figure it out... I'm sitting in on an alegrias class, followed by a guajira class...Gorgeous girls, and I really enjoy playing for them - even if I am invisible!
Yes, I used fish glue for most everything. Will do the whole thing in it - if there is a 'next time'! But the offer has to come from Bob.
Taking orders! hahahahaha....Yea. $1M US, but I might consider less, for cash!
Tap plate? SOOOO cheap to buy/replace, and one of the scariest moments , I think!
Tom is right, it's gets easier and (I hope), better, but I may have performed The Ultimate Beginners Luck, and 2, 3 and 4 could be disasters! lol...Who knows!?
Back to playing! (PS...Tom....Your avatar??? I hear you also play 'flamingo' guitar, too, as I'm often asked!!!)
Saludos,
R
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Date Aug. 7 2006 0:44:39
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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RE: Flamenco 13...She's done! (in reply to Ramón)
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Lukemoon,
No, no selling - yet! If I get the op' to build again, who knows? I didn't know if I WOULD want to build after I was done, but ya' know what? It kinda' gets in your blood! lol....
So who knows...A few more people have seen and played it, and they are kind of speechless, so I surprised even myself, as all I hoped to acheive was just a "decent sounding' guitar"..
I really wanted to finish this guitar to have and play, but even with work, I managed to get over quite a bit. If I did it again, it would take a bit longer as I would work on 'when I could', and again, patience would be the key to making an even better instrument.
That in itself is somewhat motivating, as I would like to see if I could out-do this one......probably build the rosette, too!
Cheers,
R
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Date Aug. 7 2006 23:21:16
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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RE: Flamenco 13...She's done! (in reply to Ramón)
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Pegheds? Hmmmmmmmmm.... Here's the low-down...
Threads are a joke. Bob (the luthier) tried 3 sets, then ordered 6 sets more. He talked with Chuck about;
1. Rather useless threads. Won't 'cut', and if there is any shellac or lacquer in the holes, forget it; They won't push through. A more aggressive thread would have made a huge difference.
2. The fact that out of 6 sets, Bob has only 2 COMPLETE, good sets that work as they're supposed to.
3. The new ones have the molded 'buttons' - a bit ratty looking. I sent my ebony pegs in when they first used the button from the wood ones. This is way nicer than the new ones. If you DO order, I would ask if you can still do this.
4. The fact that Chuck said they'd made "50,000 of them already", and didn't seem interested to make any improvments - or just make them work right.
They ARE very nice, look quite close to the real deal, and there is a guy who re-sells them on the web and adds pearl or bone dots to them. A nice touch....
http://www.lessonsinlutherie.com/PlanetaryPegs.html
However, I have 2 that slip unless REALLY shoved up hard, 2 that click-click-click as they tune, and 2 that tune as smooth as butter.
Wish the quality control was there....
Finally, they are NOT as easy as they suggest to put in! They were made VERY off-sized to all standard drills and such, and you have to buy a special tapering tool ($120) and cut or file the head down. Drill sizes are such that one is too small and the next too big, so you have to buy a special bit, too.
Maybe Anders figured out a backdoor technique that made it easier, or, just got it close and glued them in as we did. The threads will NOT do it (IMHO). He might shed some light here...
Make sure you test the direction of each thread-pattern, and install so that, as you tighten the string, you are also tightening the post, but the glue should hold it.
Final thoughts: A pain in the ass in many ways, but in the end, it really does work far easier than pegs, and I've had about 6 peghead guitars, so I've seen very good to very bad. I like these things....Just wish they were a LITTLE better. It would make them VERY worthwhile. And I just LOVE peghead flamencos, as it leaves so much more heaplate wood.
Maybe the re-seller guy is doing some touchup/quality control. Just a thought here I just had:
If the shaft wall is thick enough, one could re-cut the threads a little deeper with a tap and die set (wanna bet that it's odd-sized, too! lol). It would take off the color, but it's inside the wood, anyway!
Rand
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 8 2006 1:20:15
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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RE: Flamenco 13...She's done! (in reply to Ramón)
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Bob does his on an inkjet printer, and they will run, so he covers as he continues working. I ran mine off to a disc, then to a printer who has an awesome laser color printer - like .65 cents per page. The quality is noticeably better, but I did not test for 'runs'. I have had color biz cards made by him this way, and they hold up very well.
I made like 25 tickets...Should I make the guitars to put them into??
I would do the same if I were you. They're just printed on a nice parchment-looking paper. Try a light coat of 'art sealer' or even spray lacquer over to seal it....
I messed up, too, and didn't have a ticket ready until I strung it up, so it went in about 4 minutes before launch, so it was one less worry while building, but harder to place in position.
When I get my hands on a good recorder, I will play a little Led Zep' or Hendrix on it and post.... (that would actually be kind of funny to do!)
Thanks for the compliment!
RH
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Aug. 8 2006 14:55:11
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Ramón
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
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RE: Flamenco 13...She's done! (in reply to Ramón)
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Hola Patrick,
I think that since there are 50,000 in Chucks inventory, they are, of course, great. No disrespect, as I love them and the idea, it's just not as simple as Chuck states.
When Bob said the general reamers were odd-sized to the pegheds, Chuck said; "Just pick up this reamer I use"...
Well, $120.00 for the reamer, special drill, a few hours to refit - oh!!!! You WILL need to take a pair of pliers to get past certain areas when threading - at times - and to remove after the 'test fit', put glue on, and get them set PERFECT....
Add $120.00 for the pegs, and this becomes a bit more than "the easiest thing in the world"...and a bit more costly.
Bob made an HDPE (plastic) jaw for the pliers, and then uses a thin, flexible-but-tough rubber strip to grab the pegs. Even with this, this is what dented the back of the head - as careful as I was - and also, still, got a few teeth marks in one of the more troublesome pegs... Bummer...
Again, I'm not the authority on this. This was just MY experience, and yet, Bob's done 3 or 4 and says this is "routine".
Maybe Anders has a few tips or cost/time saving ideas. You COULD do it a bit sloppy, and with glue, be okay, but I was trying to get the rim flush with the headplate, and no threads showing in back. I laminated the head TO the peghed-dimensions - I think it's 19mm???? Not sure, now, and this flushes the top and hides the threads...
And yes, the buttons are ROUGH. Bob liked that the first ones WERE ebony, taken from a real pegs.
I might just contact the other guy, ask if he can use my peg's buttons, and get another set with the bone dots. Thinking about it, although mine seem to be settling in a bit.......
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Date Aug. 8 2006 21:06:29
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