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Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback?
Hola all,
Started in on the Super Blonde shellac (French polish) on the top. Did 2 'protection' coats, then did 3 more after the bridge process was complete. Sanded that today and did 3 light coats, again. Letting sit for 48 hours, then will sand smooth and start in again...
Okay...Here's my question:
I'm considering that, as a flamenco, we are WAY harder on our guitars than a classical player...
Also, as the top is far and away about the most important part, I chose FP, but am considering using this KTM-9 product, a water-based lacquer, with a harder finish, for the sides, bottom, neck, etc...
I've read a lot, and people say it is quite close in many aspects to FP, but more durable, easier and quicker (but a 2 week cure to polish), but I wonder if anyone out there has tried this?
I saw that Ramirez, even on the FL1, is now using this method, and to me, it makes sense. But there are those who believe FP is the ONLY way to go, so I'm seeking feedback from you guys.
Thanks again for all the support and comments!
R
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RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón)
Ramon,
I'm no luthier so I can't give a proper reply on the finish, but my guitar has the lacker finish and I've been very thankful for it on many occassions. My heart has dropped to the pit of my stomach many a times when I've heard the THUD sound of the guitar hitting something. I truly think the finish has prevented many injuries. Of course, I always try to take care and none of the hits were of great force.
As far as your guitar, here is the greates complement I know to give. My wife (who often thinks I'm "Loco" with the many hours I practice, scream in frustration, and spend reading post in an attempt to learn) happened to see the photo of your guitar and walked up to say that it was "gorgeous" Now, she's never said that about MY guitar
It looks great and I like the way the edges look on the head just the way they are.
Good luck, Hope it really sounds great and thanks for all your posts. SB
RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón)
Here's my idea of an elegant bevel. Recognize this famous head? I prefer for only the headplate(not the underlying veneers) to have the bevel. Yours looks pretty damn sweet though, keep it simple. A scalloped nut would look awesome with that headstock.
I love super blondes, in more ways than one. I would go for a complete french polish. Mi dos centavos....
What material makes up those peg tips?
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RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón)
A luthier friend has a beautiful cedar faced, brazilian backed classical. The front looks like a war zone with dings and scratches. When he gets a spare couple of hours he will restore it to brand new as its french polished.
If Ramirez is using the lacquer on the backs and sides then it must be ok...he rarely, if ever, does anything without thorough experimentation. He would not use it if it affected the sound of the instrument.
This has been a superb reference series of articles, well done.
RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón)
Ramon, your best best to seek this advise would be on the MIMF website under the glues and finishes section. Even in their library. There's a lot of mixed reviews on this KTM stuff. Some like it and some do not.
Are you planning on building more guitars or is this a one time deal? if it's a one timer, go with FP. If you plan on building more, take your pic on the finish as you can use different ones on the others and see what you like best.
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón)
Hola,
Wrote a big thanks to everyone for their help and input, earlier today, and my conncection went down when I tried to post, so naturally..... I lost all I wrote.
I went to the Luthier's website, and it seemed that all the KTM-9 feedback was quite good. It just seems to make sense to me to do it this way. I'm just not careful enough with a guitar - although FP seems easy to repair. Process seems about the same the '9, which is why it got good reviews on ease of repair.
Not decided, but leaning...
Tomas.....wow..! The tops on these ARE flexible! 2.0/2.1mm!! The Bearbero's are 3.0. Hoping this doesn't fold like a clam when I string it up!!!!!!!
RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón)
Hi Ramón,
Nice work with the guitar!
I have french polished more than 200 guitars and used KTM only once so maybe I am too biased to answer your question, but my opinion favours the french polish. I know (only too well...) that schellack has its draw backs but I am convinced that it has NO competitors sound vise. Further more, it is really easy to repair, i.e. repolish. Sure, I know that it is possible to repair KTM, nitro and possibly some other finishes, but no one is as easy as french polish. As a bonus the beauty of a well done french polish is fantastic.
Are you going to keep the guitar for yourself or is it for sale? If it is for yourself I would propose that you choose french polish, learn the technique and keep your guitar well polished through time. It is when the different finishes breaks down through wear or chemical processes (which not occurs with schellack) that the instrument is in danger.
RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón)
Yes, that's me. Unfortunately the english pages of my website is under reconstruction, but I guess that you, Anders, can understand the Swedish.
What I forgot to say in my last message is that no finish, no matter how hard it is, can protect the guitar from dangerous blows against an armrest or table for example. You just have to live with that the guitar is a fragile creature.
RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón)
I've only built two, but I'd say if you're going to FP the top, you might as well do the whole thing. I'll think you'll feel better about it, more sense of accomplishment (not as if you don't have that already!) And it's not that hard to do anyway, looks great, and feels better to say you french polished it, rather than saying it's KTM 9. I don't know, just my thoughts.
Posts: 440
Joined: Feb. 23 2005
From: La Jolla, Ca
RE: Flamenco 12 - finishes- feedback? (in reply to Ramón)
Decided on the KTM-9 finish for the neck, back, and sides. For me, it's just more practical, as I hope this will be a strong accompaniment/main use guitar.
I played with the stuff, found it was easy to 'touch up', is backwards-compatible with French (the neck was coming out VERY light, so I hit it with 3 coats of a darker shellac and then recovered with KTM. Worked perfect.)
I applied the KTM as I would shellac. Tried a brush...Not that great. Tried a foam brush - worse. The handrubbing seems the best, so I did it just like one does shellac. 3 coats, 24hrs, light sanding, 3 coats...... It's come out quite nice.
The top, is, of course, French'd. The color match is quite close, but won't be fully known until I polish.
It's a loooong process, since I also have to work. I have one more shellac/alcohol/oil coat (3 applications in one visit), and then it's a cure for a week or 10 days.
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Now, she's never said that about MY guitar 
I would go for a complete french polish. Mi dos centavos.... 
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